Heliobiology Research

[Archmonoth]

1 hour ago, Ken Cheung said:

I just got the most horrible headache for 2 to 3 hours last night. Between 10pm and 1am gmt. Can someone please advise me if that was solar related? Headaches are rare for me, it almost never happens, I can’t explain what happened last night, why was I in so much pain. 

Your post might be seen as a request for medical advice. I am not a doctor, nor a medical professional.

 

Headaches have many causes, including diet, tooth decay, stress, lack of water... just to name a few. There are many types of headaches like migraines, which are quite painful and also have many causes for their intensity and condition. Migraine - Wikipedia this wiki page is a collection of some of those causes and symptoms. 

 

Solar activity has been happening your whole life, including flares, geometric storms, and such. Solar cycles come in 11-year cycles, so if you are JUST NOW getting headaches, it is doubtful (to me) that solar weather is the cause. 

 

Not being able to explain a headache might be uncommon for you, but the world is filled with unknowns. To avoid personal bias, try to avoid filling the unknown with something which can't be proven or disproven.

 

I am not suggesting you are doing this, just trying to give the same caution about pseudo-science as I would about medical advice. 

[Kyngston]

On 10/13/2021 at 1:11 PM, Archmonoth said:

The control group required would have to be sheltered from the Sun entirely. They would have to be underground, in a chamber, somewhere with no sunlight, and the sample size would have to include many people, since the variables on human biology are massive. 

 

Psychological issues are even more variable, since the definitions and classifications are behavioral and self reported conditions. 

 

Is it the Sun? Or is it the culture, genetics, diet, sleep cycle, individual hysteresis (past conditions)? How are variables omitted/reduced? The very first link describes a study with only 16 people over 5 months. Perhaps a larger sample size would define the impact clearly? 

 

For example: Vitamin D is processed and created by exposure to the Sun. Vitamin D has measurable biological effects, which can be replicated without sunlight. 

 

Helios-sensitivity sounds borderline pseudo/new age, since "Sun activity" could mean a variety of things.

I understand daylight, and sleep cycles can impact human biology. 

Solar flares? Doubtful...

I would suggest adding magnetic insulation & radiation shielding to the proposed control group, as these are probably vectors of influence. There are probably old/ decommissioned/ declassified bomb shelters /NORAD/research facilities somewhere out there that could suffice…

If the effects of solar flares/CMEs can be documented in tree rings, I think the probability is higher that they would affect us eggheads too.
 

And given the commercial nature of modern science, there is probably a lot that we’re collectively ‘double-blind’ about.

[David Silver]

One thing that is interesting is that this does not only pertain to "electromagnetic radiation" from above. I saw recently that NASA are doing a topographical map of the USA for the first time to 40KM depth showing the conductivity of the various rocks/minerals. Early data shows that the conductivity is far more variable than they previously thought. Ground conductivity and "geomagnetically induced currents" play a large role as a biological influence. Currently the narrative is "induced current doesn't affect humans".

Like all areas of heliobiology, with our human bodies being electric meat bags of water and conductive minerals, it is reasonable to surmise that everything electromagnetic affects our very sensitive bioelectromagnetic bodies. That data will gradually become more robust, but we have enough cross-referenced research to arrive at this logical conclusion.

The new map shows that my area is RED, in the maximum conductivity zone. So, I have seriously considered moving, but maybe not into a bomb shelter. (although as of April 2022, maybe)
Induced Currents PBS episode

There is a lot of new research happening about induced ground current. Link

 

 

[Archmonoth]

On 4/1/2022 at 6:26 PM, Kyngston said:

I would suggest adding magnetic insulation & radiation shielding to the proposed control group, as these are probably vectors of influence.

Humans, as well as most life on earth has insulation around our nerves called Myelin. Unlike trees, we have evolved to protect our nervous system from electric disruption. I'm not saying we are immune, and it is possible people have reduced/diminished Mylin and be more sensitive.

 

However, the low frequency waves and energy from the Sun is dwarfed by the nearby electric output of phones, refrigerators, television etc. If someone is sensitive to the Sun's electric output, they are likely going to have issues with nearby machines as well. 

 

On 4/1/2022 at 6:26 PM, Kyngston said:

There are probably old/ decommissioned/ declassified bomb shelters /NORAD/research facilities somewhere out there that could suffice…

Oh yes, I'm sure some good control groups could be set up. 

On 4/1/2022 at 6:26 PM, Kyngston said:

If the effects of solar flares/CMEs can be documented in tree rings, I think the probability is higher that they would affect us eggheads too.

There are many ways we are obviously affected by the Sun, like Sun burns, vitamin D, day/night cycles etc. However, the physical mechanism of affecting our inner electrical/nervous systems is different, since it is inside our body, (like being underground). Myelin is like electric cord insulation, and it's around our nerves. Myelin - Wikipedia

 

On 4/2/2022 at 6:43 AM, David Silver said:

.... it is reasonable to surmise that everything electromagnetic affects our very sensitive bioelectromagnetic bodies.

 

The degree of affect is questionable. Your argument of analogy, by saying trees/rocks are conductive or show signs doesn't equal everything is conductive of impacted the same way. (or at all)

 

Our computers are sensitive and made of minerals, but they are insulted, and have surge protectors, wire insulation etc. Even during the X-Class flare, how many insulated computers were affected? 

 

I understand what you are saying, and that some people might have diminished insulation and/or be more sensitive to electromagnetic fields and disruption.

 

I disagree that your analogy makes it more reasonable because there are significant differences between trees/minerals and human beings. 

 

[David Silver]

Not to make this a conversation about Qi and Qigong and bioelectricity, but there is a lot of information you need to reference before arriving at a solid "conclusion" on this topic. How many calories did your brain and electric meat hand consume in order to compose your 19th disagreement on this thread? Calories = energy = metabolized food = sunlight. You are composed of energy at the fundamental level. Your physical structure "made of stardust" is mostly water and empty space with a SPARK of consciousness.

(Myelin sheath is made of long chain fatty acids; I proactively have been eating avocado and other sources daily for a decade +. Problem not solved.)

All of our different tissues have different bioelectromagnetic properties and conductivity. Bone is a semiconductor; meaning it doesn't conduct until it reaches threshold voltage. Fat acts as an insulator. Different muscles, tendons, fascia have varying degrees of conductivity.

All 100 trillion of your extremely knowledgable cells are exchanging energy, acting as dipoles, all day every day, including throughout the nervous system. Most people have healthy insulation and brains that can regulate the signals within the body to have no negative consequence. Others do not. Whether you are a perfect specimen like yourself or a cripple like me, the same stressors are permeating your meat sack all day long. Its just that you are lucky enough to not be paying attention to a physical experience of those stressors, while I am hardwired to feel them to the utmost.

This unfortunate and largely unpleasant experience affords me an unusual perspective to objectively witness first-hand these strange physiological effects and relate them to the growing body of research data (from actual scientists) about the human biological responses to geomagnetic disturbance, cosmic rays and other frequencies of energy that are potentially more harmful at times than is commonly discussed. So I though it would be cool to discuss it with other solar weather enthusiasts. Like, fun and interesting.

My point in this thread is not to bicker with Archmonotone or share personal anecdotes and endless opinions, but instead read the science, share more science, understand the science, discuss the science. Please lets for the love of all that's holy discuss the science.  

National Library of Medicine The effect of low-frequency electromagnetic fields on the neuroendocrine system

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by David Silver

[Archmonoth]

1 hour ago, David Silver said:

You are composed of energy at the fundamental level. Your physical structure "made of stardust" is mostly water and empty space with a SPARK of consciousness.

Consciousness is bound by logic gates and neural networks. Neural network - Wikipedia

Stardust is just fancy dust. What's your point? The origin of something doesn't describe its current qualities. Your analogies are vague and abstract and sound like pseudo-science.  

1 hour ago, David Silver said:

(Myelin sheath is made of long chain fatty acids; I proactively have been eating avocado and other sources daily for a decade +. Problem not solved.)

I understand if avocados don't fix your symptoms. I was referring to the general idea of insulated wires and equivalent neurons, rather than how you present humans as exposed brains to electrical disruption. 

 

I don't discount low frequency effects on systems, which I why I mentioned refrigerators and phones, computers, televisions etc. Which would also impact people who are sensitive? 

 

 

 

[HalfFeralHuman]

Ok, I'm going to go here.

I don't think your base premise is wildly unbelievable - that electromagnetic flux could very possibly influence bodily functions. However you're taking this and running way far off pitch. Science isn't just theorising and then just going with it because it feels like it has some truth, it's coming up with a theory, coming up with a way to test that theory without the involvement of possible confounding factors or bias, and then publishing the whole process so others can double check for any errors.

The thing here is that you're running in here with no evidence. You've got a seemingly unreviewed paper from donkey's years ago and you're throwing it on the table as science. If there was merit to this paper, where's the follow-up research? Wouldn't a lot of people be interested in this if it was really a thing?

Or perhaps we simply don't have enough knowledge of biology at present to come up with accurate predicton as to what effects to expect from a given electromagnetic event.

I think you are looking for an answer that's one of two things: either an answer to an invalid question, or an answer that's just way too many steps ahead of our current knowledge to be able to realistically expect an answer to in our lifetimes.

Either way, an answer without proof and validation is no answer.

[HalfFeralHuman]

1 hour ago, David Silver said:

Not to make this a conversation about Qi and Qigong

Sorry, I'm sleepless and I just can't help myself here.

Qi : 气  - Air, or gas or sometimes atmosphere as in the general vibe of a place. 毒气 (du qi) is simply poison gas. There's nothing mystical about the character 'qi/气'.

QiGong ：气功 - Air + skill ... basically skill at breathing / oxegenating muscles.

That is what these words mean, the rest is just mysticism. 不相信？自己去学吧！

[GuyFierisFridge]

Regarding your issue with tinnitus, I think there may be another explanation. This is anecdotal but I am fairly certain I can hear geomagnetic storms and sometimes it is loud, particularly the G3 we recently had and when there was a coronal hole in the middle (central latitude?) of the sun. The sound varies but the best way to describe it is standing close to a transformer. Sometimes the sound oscillates and for me at least I also notice a change in pitch of other sounds, such as the ventilation that's usually going in my apartment. I first noticed when we had a G1 storm that NOAA's map indicated was causing disturbances that extended to where I live, then I started noticing it more as we got more storms and decided to see if I could notice it first and then check the map, and so far I've been able to notice them before I check the map or any space weather forecasts, even noticing some smaller events that ended up coming earlier or later than predicted or were not predicted at all. 

Based on my (self-taught) understanding of how geomagnetic storms affect the earth, I believe that the noise distortions I am hearing, which often resemble tinnitus, are due to the storm's affect on the earth's magnetosphere. From what I understand, solar wind causes increased pressure on the day side of the magnetosphere and elongation of the night side of the magnetosphere. This also affects our ionosphere and atmosphere, though I'm not sure of the mechanics and am just reiterating what NOAA has on their space weather summary page. I would expect that they are saying that some distortion of the atmosphere would occur when the magnetosphere is distorted by space weather events.

Sound is a vibration that propagates an acoustic wave through a medium. When the medium, our atmosphere, experiences a change in pressure, density, etc., it can cause acoustic wave refraction. Refraction could cause someone to hear a different pitch or volume from the same sound than what they normally hear. It could also cause someone to notice a sound that's always been there, such as (anecdotally speaking) when I noticed a change in the sound the ventilation made during a geomagnetic storm. It has been documented that geomagnetic storms interfere with high frequency radio communications that use our ionosphere for transmitting signals due to distortion, so if they are distorting our atmosphere, even to a lesser extent than the ionosphere, then they would also affect ground-level sound waves, though probably not enough to consider it "interference." 

Another explanation or contributing factor is the known electrical interference that occurs at ground level during geomagnetic storms. It's possible that the "transformer" noise I'm hearing is electrical-related, from the geomagnetically induced currents flowing through electrical lines to my apartment and possibly through my electronics. It's also possible that both of these things are affecting my, and your, perception of sound during geomagnetic storms, which could mean that neither of us have tinnitus

[David Silver]

When you have 10 out 10 tinnitus as I sometimes do, there is no question that it is loud ringing in your head, not only the ears, but whole head vibrating with stress chemistry activation. And yes, it is VERY similar to standing next to a big transformer station in sound and feeling.

I have really terrible sizzling ringing today so Im extra miserable. Every time electrons are over the threshold it is the worst. Anyone who can explain WHY wins the big prize. Id sure like to understand. (image attached) I try not to be too personal here.

Qi means energy. The qi and blood cannot be separated. Blood delivers oxygen and energy to every cell. Nitric oxide delivers the "available" energy we burn, but that gas is made of molecules, which is made of atoms, which are made of...

Your experience of your biological energy can be as mundane or as mystical as you choose. We wont determine if the human soul exists in this forum. Everyone clings to their opinion and confirms their bias. I have studied the topic extensively and arrived at my personal conclusion. Im not one to indoctrinate others. But I can answer questions.

I highly recommend reading this book by physicist Changlin Zhang: Invisible Rainbow book on Amazon

Or, less unbiased, read this book by my qigong master, also a physicist, who certified me to teach in 2006:  Dr Yang Jwing Ming qigong book

I will refrain from delving into qigong class here. You can also read about the epistemology of the word Qi (energy) if you are so inclined: Qi / Prana / Energy / Manna = bioelectricity

Please also recognize, regarding the biological effects of geomagnetic disturbance aka heliobiology: this is not my opinion or my premise. Im not positing a hypotheses for you to consider. Im posting links to scientific research published in the National Institute of Health database, precisely to avoid the opinion wars; for you to read, consider and learn about.

"We don't have enough knowledge"...read the research. Yes, I am ahead of the curve of mainstream discussion of this topic, because my unfortunate health situation has made me aware of it - I'm LISTENING to Cycle 25.

I happen to agree with the data and be hyper-interested in the subject, and I spend a lot of time explaining it here, but please read the dozens of links to peer-reviewed research by actual scientists. Data is all Im interested in. Facts. Reality. I hope that space weather enthusiasts will share an interest in learning about this growing area of research, rekindled recently after some fledgling attempts to describe the biological affects dating back 100 years.

Please read the dozens of papers in this thread before proclaiming your disapproval and opinion. DATA > opinions:

https://biomedscis.com/pdf/OAJBS.ID.000203.pdf

Quote

 I can hear geomagnetic storms and sometimes it is loud, particularly the G3

This is called tinnitus.

Edited April 5, 2022 by David Silver

[SpaceWhiskey]

I was trying to explain to a close friend of mine, that just because we don't have sufficient evidence of something, that does not mean its not true. It just means the solution is still being worked on, and it may or may not be true.

For example, if you have a phenomenon, lets say tinnitus for example (ringing in the ears), which can be explained by taking too much asprin. That does not disprove the tinnitus may have been caused by something else. That is the concept I think people are not understanding. One cannot simply rule out a possible cause for a phenomenon, just because the phenomenon may have more than one cause. One must rule out each and every cause.

I am looking for the words to explain this concept. It is a concept that very few people can wrap their head around (at first at least). The closest thing to explain this is perhaps a hypothesis, but even fewer people understand what that is. A hypothesis is valid if it is testable. Then you attempt to disprove the hypothesis using the scientific method. 

Lets imagine you have a hypothesis, which is valid and testable. As you perform tests and collect data using the scientific method, you discover your experiments are not simple laboratory experiments and may* require more advanced controls. An example would be heliobiology (or nearly any human studies, which are known to be hectic if not impossible to control properly). My stance is that, just because the study is hard in humans, doesnt mean it is not a valid study with good science and critical knowledge in there... It just means is that it's a tough one, which scientists LOVE. Remember that in science, we don't only pick low hanging fruit, we seek innovation, discovery, and novelty. The answers to the questions scientists ask are not already published, they seek to discover the answers and publish novel work. Non-scientists sometimes don't realize you can't publish work that is already published (so they often don't get the innovation part), it must be novel and pass peer review. If you want to go pro, it must also address significant areas in human health as well, at least for NIH funding.

Thus, it does not make these concepts untrue (or true) just because they are hard to test. It simply means it needs more testing, and possibly thinking about things critically. Is that making sense? I get bothered sometimes with people dismissing some of these perfectly valid ideas, just because there is no paper published by the critiques' favorite author in the critiques' favorite journal. To me, this area of science is young, much like many areas of physics and space research. They shall evolve nicely together. Biology, chemistry, physics.

Here is a suggestion on how to avoid being dumb in science (and how to be a better thinker in general), in my personal opinion: Try to never dismiss ideas just because they have not been proven yet. Because when they are proven, you look pretty dumb. Im not suggesting anyone "believe" in alternative science, not that at all, im talking about handling information critically. Im not pointing fingers at anyone, just advice on how to be a better scientist, and also how to think about emerging areas of science which need more work done. This same concept applies to space research, physics, etc as well, which has plenty of emerging ideas and theories which have loose (but promising) scientific support, and we are eager to gather more data on. 

If I take a step back, I honestly feel like this is very important stuff, and look forward to how this story unfolds. However the story is told, it will unlock some important knowledge for human biology/neurology, and possibly help those suffering.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by SpaceWhiskey

[GuyFierisFridge]

I also heard it last night (I'm on EST so just woke up) and understand what you mean. Would it really be tinnitus though? I might be mistaken but I thought tinnitus was essentially caused by damage to your hearing and is basically an internal perception of sounds that might not be there, whereas the theoretic distortions in sound caused by geomagnetic storms would be an external change that it seems some people are able to notice easier than others. I'm sure both could be a factor, too!

Did you hear anything during the days that the coronal hole was visible on the sun? Not sure of the scientific location names lol but if you looked at the GOES solar imagery it was basically in the middle of the sun. That one threw me for a loop because it was audible for me even though when I heard it, I went to NOAA's website to check space weather and didn't see anything that looked like an active geomagnetic storm for most of the time. But I did notice a few days later that the solar wind speed had been really high and am guessing that the sound distortions I heard during that time period were from solar winds interacting with the magnetosphere and/or atmosphere, which I presume would result in sound wave distortion due to the force exerted, but not sure of the mechanics at this point.

I'd love to do a study with a noise meter on a few days with "quiet" space weather and a few days with "active" space weather but I don't think it would be very reliable/reproducible. Noise can be hard to measure/interpret too because part of the reading relies on the distance of the perceiver (the noise meter) from the source of the sound. And the equipment would probably need to be top tier instead of the RIEUEBWKOWND brand from amazon that would be within my budget if I wanted to be able to separate out individual sounds and remove things like birds chirping or my SO yelling at 14 year olds on PS5 from the ambient noise.

But anyone reading this thread feel free to recommend noise meters if you know of any that might be able to detect something like this!

[Archmonoth]

On 4/5/2022 at 9:59 AM, David Silver said:

 And yes, it is VERY similar to standing next to a big transformer station in sound and feeling.

Do you get the same feeling/experience when being next to a large transformer? 

 

On 4/5/2022 at 9:59 AM, David Silver said:

Anyone who can explain WHY wins the big prize. Id sure like to understand. 

There are specialists in headaches, varieties of chemical solutions, or perhaps science has a boundary for your kind of experience. 

 

On 4/5/2022 at 9:59 AM, David Silver said:

Qi means energy. The qi and blood cannot be separated. Blood delivers oxygen and energy to every cell. Nitric oxide delivers the "available" energy we burn, but that gas is made of molecules, which is made of atoms, which are made of...

 

Blood is specific to organisms, and energy is a broader term, and can be part of many different systems. You are conflating distinct things with vague things. This is a sign of pseudo-science. 

On 4/5/2022 at 9:59 AM, David Silver said:

Your experience of your biological energy can be as mundane or as mystical as you choose.

 

It is my opinion that mystical narratives prevent actual science form being accomplished. I fully support imagination play, but I prefer my fantasy to be recreational. 

On 4/5/2022 at 9:59 AM, David Silver said:

We wont determine if the human soul exists in this forum.

 

Then why bring it up? 

On 4/5/2022 at 9:59 AM, David Silver said:

I will refrain from delving into qigong class here. You can also read about the epistemology of the word Qi (energy) if you are so inclined: Qi / Prana / Energy / Manna = bioelectricity

 

Qi is generally considered pseudo-science, due to vague and nebulous descriptions. This isn't just my opinion, here is the Wikipedia on topics characterized as pseudo-science. List of topics characterized as pseudoscience - Wikipedia

"Qi – vital energy whose flow must be balanced for health. Qi has never been directly observed and is unrelated to the concept of energy used in science"

 

On 4/5/2022 at 9:59 AM, David Silver said:

Please also recognize, regarding the biological effects of geomagnetic disturbance aka heliobiology: this is not my opinion or my premise.

If you keep injecting pseudo-science into the conversation, the science is harder to see. 

 

On 4/5/2022 at 3:05 PM, SpaceWhiskey said:

Thus, it does not make these concepts untrue (or true) just because they are hard to test. It simply means it needs more testing, and possibly thinking about things critically. Is that making sense?

 

Yes, this makes sense, since a 3rd option exists, called the unknown. The unknown can be many things, including true, false, neither, both etc. The unknown compels most people to fill it with mystical explanations or narratives. If you want to pursue knowledge, then you must learn to accept the unknown. 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Archmonoth

[Solarflaretracker200]

@David Silver did you have any symptoms during the X class flare...oh what was it..a week ago?

23 minutes ago, Archmonoth said:

Then why bring it up? 

I know right. Why point something out if you don't want to talk about it 🤣

[David Silver]

Hi! Hey did you see this new paper?
"Numerous studies have  established  that  this  coincidence  of  frequencies  plays  an  important  role:  changes  with  such  a frequency of electric and magnetic fields have an adverse effect on humans.

In  recent  years,  scientists  have  figured  out  what  deviations  of  physical  fields  from  a  stable state must be in order for them to be felt in the same way as, for example, magnetic storms by some people.  At  the  same  time,  an  amazing  fact  was  discovered:  the  physical  characteristics  of  natural "harmful" fields differ from "normal" ones almost imperceptibly. However, the manifestation of very small changes in several even weak fields at once (electric, magnetic, mechanical -say, atmospheric pressure -etc.)  can  have  a  noticeable  effect  if  their  actions  are  consistent  with  the  rhythms  of physiological processes. Special  experiments  on  modeling  natural  physical  fields  revealed  another  amazing  fact: electromagnetic and mechanical (for example, vibrations) fields in a wide range of frequencies (from ultra low to ultra high) act identically on living organisms. It has been established that the effect of electromagnetic  fields  on  behavioral  reactions  is  probabilistic  in  nature  and  manifests  itself  in different organisms in different ways.

Various ways of protecting people from the effects of physical fields were also considered...

...during the 3-month study (in November, December, January) 14,880 people applied for emergency medical care, of which 3571 (24%) complained of pain in the heart, high blood pressure, headaches. When comparing many facts, the following was found out: on days of geomagnetic activity, the number of visits to the doctor about heart failure, blood pressure, and hypertension increases. "New research every week.

To answer many questions above: I made this thread to discuss the science, not me personally. But OK:

During the terrible week of recent solar weather I oscillated between very bad symptoms, and feeling surprisingly well, directly correlating to whether the Bz was "south" or "north/postitive". When its north, we're shielded. When its south, we're shielded less, and I immediately have increased ringing and various other symptoms.

I have mentioned repeatedly due to your personal questions about my personal medical history and personal experience with various medical doctors which does include several headache/migraine/concussion specialists, but of course that is not the topic of this thread.

Qigong/Daoyin is a discipline with thousands of years of history. If you are learning about it for the first time, please read an actual book (links above) rather than the lowest common denominator of intelligence and experience (Wikipedia). On Wikipedia you will only learn what the most arrogant editor will tolerate about a subject with a painful whitewashing of non-Anglo topics. Your cut/pasting quotes to me about qigong is like someone writing in this forum that the aurora is caused by moon people. You just plain don't know what you're talking about. Its better to not talk in those instances. Try it. Like, any time now.

I have been studying and teaching qigong for decades; that is deep subject you might enjoy if you investigate with a bit more sincerity. Your body has energy. On that we can agree. The Chinese word for energy is Qi. Now you learned. Qigong is working with your energy, through breath, meditation and movement. I found it in my search to help with my personal energy problems I have had since childhood. Read.the.books.before.professing.expertise. or kindly visit other threads you find more agreeable. Others need trolling too!

You can stop saying pseudo-anything. We heard you. SO many times. Offer something with depth and credible information to participate in the conversation. Im not here for bullying. Im seeking intelligent, forward-thinking people interested in the biological effects of geomagnetic disturbance. 

There is no pseudoscience in my posts. I post other people's data! Unless Im forced to get personal. Pseudoscience is the bias you are desperately trying to confirm, while ignoring  dozens of research papers about the topic of this thread. Discuss those. Please don't attack me personally because you are too closeminded to consider topics you have not learned about yet. Learn about things in general before speaking.
 

[GuyFierisFridge]

I don't know how to tag people because I just made an account since this topic interested me but I think Archmonon and David are both being a little hard on each other, and stubborn! I believe David can be feeling something related to geomagnetic storms, my own experience aside, that maybe he is unable to identify the source of or an explanation for. And I dont see a lot of information out there about studies on how they do affect us down here on the ground, just the usual "you're not gonna get cancer." So from my own experience with something unusual that I thought might be related to space weather based on a pattern of observation, I turned to physics and did some research on what solar flares are, how they interact with our space environment, what we DO know they affect, and extrapolated that information to form my hypothesis of "solar activity distorts our atmosphere in a way that changes something about sound waves so that they are different when they arrive at our ears." With a good study and a nice noise meter, this hypothesis will be proven either correct or incorrect, and if its the latter I will resign myself to investigating my other hypothesis: brain tumor 🤤

But that's me, I'm a scientist in my day job. That's not everyone, and as I'm sure you're aware, that's kind of how religion and magic and, more importantly, creativity, came to be! People try to explain things they dont know in ways they can understand, and not everyone thinks like a scientist or has the base knowledge or means to become one, and even then, people might be a specialist in their scientific field but have little understanding of another scientific specialty. So Archmonoth I think perhaps you started off with the expectation that David thinks exactly like you do, but it seems he does not and now it is just constant back and forth with no substance. But that said, David I feel from your comments that you do have a genuine interest in science regardless of it's ability to explain an effect on you, but that in this particular scenario, you feel that you are already sure what is affecting you are not as open to alternatives or even curious questioning as a result. Perhaps we can all "reset" and go from there? 

[GuyFierisFridge]

Anyone hearing that? 😏 my HVAC is playing dubstep right now

[HalfFeralHuman]

You're being challenged to put forward genuine theory and follow on research to back up what you're saying. I, personally, doubt that you can.

If you want to rise to the challenge, I'd suggest you start with keeping a neurolgical state diary, recorced each day before you see anything which might insitage bias in any way. You'd need to be able to show that bias didn't get involved, and that's probably the greater challenge here.

2 hours ago, David Silver said:

"New research every week"

And for fak's sake, what is this cr#p? This paper compares a just a few people per day to 'Magnetic Index Activity', I guess that's 3hr Kp??! You can't conclude anything from that! Regardless of what metric they're actually measuring, such a small sample size can't show anything at all. And even then, there's no particularly obvious trend in the scraps of data that is presented. Add in Covid as a factor and you're left with nothing of value at all.

Even the end of paper's first paragraph is full of holes:

Quote

(in this case, the deviation from the average value) of the electromagnetic field strength is especially large at a frequency from 1 Hz to 20 kHz, and resonances (its sharp changes) are observed at frequencies of 8-10, 16-17, 20-24 Hz.

If the observations are only covering <= 24 Hz, why is this paper talking about frequencies of 20,000 Hz (without citation)?

I'm sorry you're feeling bad, but seriously, you're scraping the barrel for anything which might possibly agree with what you've already decided to believe to be the cause. While tempted to ask you to show something with some actal substance to back up your claims, I suspect you'd be better off looking in other directions for the answer to your problems.

[Solarflaretracker200]

This thread in my opinion is bs 

[GuyFierisFridge]

What an unusually specific topic for the Russian Disinformation Machine to get involved in. Why do they only cite two sources? Why cant so-called scientists put a space between two separate words and numbers? Did I download any viruses by clicking that link?

David, if that's where you're finding all of these articles you gotta stop visiting that site or your tax return is gonna mysteriously filed by someone else

[Archmonoth]

4 hours ago, David Silver said:

Qigong/Daoyin is a discipline with thousands of years of history.

I understand your attachment to traditions, especially if they help explain things for you. 

4 hours ago, David Silver said:

If you are learning about it for the first time, please read an actual book (links above) rather than the lowest common denominator of intelligence and experience (Wikipedia). On Wikipedia you will only learn what the most arrogant editor will tolerate about a subject with a painful whitewashing of non-Anglo topics.

I am not saying Qi is correct or incorrect, I'm saying that other people consider Qi to be pseudo-science because of its vague and unfalsifiable qualities, regardless of how old the tradition is. What do you think pseudo-science is? 

4 hours ago, David Silver said:

I have been studying and teaching qigong for decades; that is deep subject you might enjoy if you investigate with a bit more sincerity. Your body has energy. On that we can agree. The Chinese word for energy is Qi. 

Calling something energy doesn't give the thousand-year-old discipline equal credence with science. I object to equating them, whether you or anyone does interject the idea, it's not personal. 

4 hours ago, David Silver said:

Offer something with depth and credible information to participate in the conversation. Im not here for bullying. Im seeking intelligent, forward-thinking people interested in the biological effects of geomagnetic disturbance. 

I object to superstition, sorry if that bothers you.

4 hours ago, David Silver said:

There is no pseudoscience in my posts.

Yet you continue to interject ideas which have been established as pseudo-science. 

 

I have stayed quiet for many of your links, and I have discussed some at length. I have no problems with you, please don't take this personally. 

 

I am objecting to ideas, conclusions, and the authority of traditions which you are bringing up. I don't think less of you, I understand where you are coming from. I don't deny your symptoms, your conditions or your experiences, and I have said this many times in this thread.

 

I think you take criticism of ideas personally, and I wish I could help you with that, but I can't. 

 

[HalfFeralHuman]

Oh... I'm sorry, I just can't resist any more...

Quote

The Chinese word for energy is Qi

No, the chiese word for gas or air is Qi - the character is 气. Please... If you really want to know the Chinese word for energy as a very  generous approximation of how you mean it, it's 精力 - JingLi. Still nothing mystical, and yeah... If you spent decades teaching QiGong without actually knowing what the character 气 and I guess 功 means... ... look I'm just going to leave it there. Just... go look stuff up!

[GuyFierisFridge]

Welp TIL heliobiology is based off the Russian Cosmism movement founded by this guy and refined by this guy, who doesn't seem to have been well-known enough for his wiki to be monitored routinely, and is actually one of the older Soviet propaganda devices which is kind of neat I guess.

For the record, I do believe that you are experience *something* David, but I dont think this is it or that you will feel any better believing that it is. I'm sure what you are feeling is real and that we just haven't found a scientifically-sound explanation for it.

[Compuw22c]

1 hour ago, GuyFierisFridge said:

Welp TIL heliobiology is based off the Russian Cosmism movement founded by this guy and refined by this guy, who doesn't seem to have been well-known enough for his wiki to be monitored routinely, and is actually one of the older Soviet propaganda devices which is kind of neat I guess.

Dude, SUPER interesting find.  Thanks for this!  Obviously if the guy was arrested and imprisoned for his ideas they're probably nothing /s

[GuyFierisFridge]

Personally my favorite fact is that he somehow observed effects from the solar cycle, an approximate 11-year period, on human behavior during the max 2 years he spent fighting in WW1! Amazing how he could observe the data without observing the data!