Coming sunspots

[Patrick P.A. Geryl]

9 uren geleden, Archmonoth zei:

 

Pointing at your own paper isn't fact, its your gathered evidence and conjecture. 

 

So, if the 4 current developing sunspots aren't "noise", then they are "flipping"??

I suggest not using quotes for clarity. 

 

If there is no change in polarity and they continue to develop, what would this tell you? 

 

I am asking this question because you are presenting the only 2 outcomes as either flipping or noise. 

 Hey! 2 sunspots are related to Triples with Venus!

The other 2...

These planets and planetoids are active in the southern hemisphere:

August 23 (18:00) – 25 (02:00), 2021: Opposition Mercury - Uranus across the Sun

August 23 (19:00) – 26 (08:00), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mercury - Earth – Neptune

August 24 (04:45) – 26 (11:00), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mercury - Earth – Pallas

August 23 (19:00) – 26 (08:00), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mercury - Earth – Neptune

August 24 (21:30) – 26 (08:30), 2021: Opposition Mercury - Ceres across the Sun

 Mercury

Uranus

Ceres

Earth

Neptune

Pallas

 

On August 30 a weak sunspot was possible, but probably didn’t happen:

 August 30 (17:45)

August 28 (14:15) – September 13 (17:15), 2021 Triple Line Up    Neptune – Pallas – Mars

August 29 (22:15) – September 3 (10:15), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Earth – Pallas

August 30 (17:45) – September 5 (17:30), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Earth – Neptune

 

These were the ACTIVE alignments on September 3 when sunspots 2866 and 2868 were formed:

August 28 (08:30)- September 14 (14:15), 2021 Triple Line Up Pluto – Juno – Mars

August 28 (14:15) – September 13 (17:15), 2021 Triple Line Up    Neptune – Pallas – Mars

August 30 (17:45) – September 5 (17:30), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Earth – Neptune

September 1 (12:15) – 5 (04:45), 2021 Triple Line Up    Vesta- Venus - Earth

September 2 (04:30) – 8 (19:00), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Venus - Jupiter

These are the alignments ending on September 3-4:

 August 3 (05:15)- September 3 (07:00), 2021 Triple Line Up   Saturn - Jupiter – Ceres

Only Jupiter active

 

Sunspot 2866 or 2868?

September 3 (10:15),

August 29 (22:15) – September 3 (10:15), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Earth – Pallas

3 active   2 from beta-gamma-delta

4 times Mars

2 times Earth

1 time Pallas

 

September 3 (17:15),

August 8 (06:30) – September 3 (17:15), 2021 Triple Line Up    Pluto – Pallas - Ceres

Pluto active

Pallas active

 

September 4 (19:15),

August 17 (17:00) – September 4 (19:15), 2021 Triple Line Up    Neptune – Pallas - Earth

3 active     3 from beta-gamma-delta

2 times Neptune

2 times Earth

1 time Pallas

 

The end of the line up August 29 (22:15) – September 3 (10:15), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Earth – Pallas activated the formation of the sunspot or the Triple:

  

Sunspot 2868 or 2866?

August 28 (14:15) – September 13 (17:15), 2021 Triple Line Up    Neptune – Pallas – Mars

August 29 (22:15) – September 3 (10:15), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Earth – Pallas

August 30 (17:45) – September 5 (17:30), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Earth – Neptune

 

Or Triple activated?

August 30 (17:45) – September 5 (17:30), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Earth – Neptune

3 active   2 from beta-gamma-delta

4 times Mars

2 times Earth

2 times Neptune

 

Why did the sunspots appear on the left side of the Sun? Watch the alignments on September 3…

https://www.theplanetstoday.com/

 

Why am I relatively sure?

Sunspot 2866 and 2868 interact! Watch after 25 seconds…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fZ4tGuWIWY

 

And wait now before reacting again until my paper is again up. 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Vancanneyt Sander
no bold text

[abc]

@Patrick Geryl Sorry, I do not really understand what do you mean by 3 from beta gamma delta Could you explain further?

Edited September 7, 2021 by abc

[Jesterface23]

Why just now post of sunspot regions 2866 and 2868 when you noted them and skipped them prior? Overall, posting forecasts as fine, but I'd recommend slow down a bit posting the active regions research in progress. The end results of the research are better worth it.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Jesterface23

[Archmonoth]

Pallas is a minor asteroid moon...

2 Pallas - Wikipedia  "It is 79% the mass of 4 Vesta and 22% the mass of Ceres, constituting an estimated 7% of the mass of the asteroid belt"

 

There are many objects which are not included in Patrick's calculations. What is included appears to be based on what fits into his ideas. This is called conclusion shopping, and is not useful for the refinement of knowledge or falsifying an idea. Here is picture of what I an referring to. 

 

 

 

Finding connections between masses of objects is not unusual. There is an limit to the mass capable of remaining in orbit based on the distance from other objects, as well as the ability for resonation. Saturn and Jupiter both have many moons capable of tidal resonation. This is similar to why the Sun and Moon appear the same size from Earth.

 

Orbital Resonance: In celestial mechanics orbital resonance occurs when orbiting bodies exert regular, periodic gravitational influence on each other, usually because their orbital periods are related by a ratio of small integers. 

 

Patrick is stuck in the glamour of the ratio of small integers. (My opinion)

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Archmonoth

[Newbie]

On 9/5/2021 at 5:38 PM, Patrick Geryl said:

These are the alignments active today

 September 5

August 28 (08:30)- September 14 (14:15), 2021 Triple Line Up Pluto – Juno – Mars

August 28 (14:15) – September 13 (17:15), 2021 Triple Line Up    Neptune – Pallas – Mars

August 30 (17:45) – September 5 (17:30), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Earth – Neptune

September 1 (12:15) – 5 (04:45), 2021 Triple Line Up    Vesta- Venus - Earth

September 2 (04:30) – 8 (19:00), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Venus - Jupiter

September 5 (14:00) – 7 (17:30), 2021: Conjunction Venus - Juno and the Sun

 Next alignments (Red = sunspot on Farside, M4.7 flare):

 September 6 (14:00) – 9 (20:30), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mercury - Earth – Chiron

September 7 (18:15) – 20 (18:45), 2021: Opposition Vesta - Uranus across the Sun

September 9 (11:00) – 12 (16:30), 2021: Conjunction Earth - Pallas and the Sun

September 11 (09:30) – 16 (09:15), 2021: Conjunction Earth - Neptune and the Sun

September 15 (04:45)- October 15 (01:15), 2021 Triple Line Up Saturn – Pallas – Ceres

September 15 (16:00)- November 13 (02:00), 2021 Triple Line Up   Neptune - Jupiter – Vesta

September 15 (20:00) - 20 (10:30), 2021 Triple Line Up   Neptune - Mercury – Mars

 

If my interpretation is right (becomes more complicated)…

 Sunspot 12863 is related to this Triple (no formula with conjunction or opposition):

September 1 (12:15) – 5 (04:45), 2021 Triple Line Up    Vesta- Venus - Earth

Conclusion:

Should go down from tomorrow

 

Sunspot 12864 is related to this Triple:

September 2 (04:30) – 8 (19:00), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mars - Venus - Jupiter

Conclusion:

Should make a combination today with:

September 5 (14:00) – 7 (17:30), 2021: Conjunction Venus - Juno and the Sun

 

Sunspots 12865, 12866, 12867 and 12868 are “noise”

Patrick: Now you have covered every day in September! You have gone from predicting very little activity in September,  to asking us to consider 12866 and 12868. The former is flaring at C2.3 last look! Is this flipping noise or an active sunspot group?

When I asked you to nominate the day of greatest activity you couldn't/wouldn't/didn't do it! Please don't say you have nailed it today, after the fact. Unless your predictions are to be applied retrospectively, which is a whole new ball game!

Newbie

Edited September 8, 2021 by Newbie
Spelling

[Patrick P.A. Geryl]

23 uren geleden, abc zei:

@Patrick Geryl Sorry, I do not really understand what do you mean by 3 from beta gamma delta Could you explain further?

They were also in beta gamma delta sunspot 2860

 

17 uren geleden, Jesterface23 zei:

Why just now post of sunspot regions 2866 and 2868 when you noted them and skipped them prior? Overall, posting forecasts as fine, but I'd recommend slow down a bit posting the active regions research in progress. The end results of the research are better worth it.

Well... I am ONLY INTERESTED IN COMPLEX SUNSPOTS INDUCED BY MERCURY AND VENUS.

However,  other sunspots can induce low level X flares. Maybe 2866 can induce an M flare...

Because the high sunspot number, I was looking for an explanation. It wasn't that complicated. To forecast this is also possible if you give me a dozen mathematicians who can help me...

15 uren geleden, Archmonoth zei:

 

 

 

 

There are many objects which are not included in Patrick's calculations. What is included appears to be based on what fits into his ideas. This is called conclusion shopping, and is not useful for the refinement of knowledge or falsifying an idea. Here is picture of what I an referring to. 

 

 

 

 

Boy, You don't seem tho know that there are only a few planetoids that are in RESONANCE with the PLANETS. Do your research!

Pallas is in resonance with..

Chiron is in resonance with...

Next sunspots

September 9 (11:00)

September 6 (14:00) – 9 (20:30), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mercury - Earth – Chiron

September 6 (14:00) – 9 (20:30), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mercury - Earth – Chiron

September 9 (11:00) – 12 (16:30), 2021: Conjunction Earth - Pallas and the Sun

September 15 (20:00)

September 11 (09:30) – 16 (09:15), 2021: Conjunction Earth - Neptune and the Sun?

September 7 (18:15) – 20 (18:45), 2021: Opposition Vesta - Uranus across the Sun?

September 14 (23:50) – 16 (03:00), 2021: Conjunction Mercury - Venus and the Sun

September 15 (20:00) - 20 (10:30), 2021 Triple Line Up   Neptune - Mercury – Mars

September 15 (16:00)- November 13 (02:00), 2021 Triple Line Up   Neptune - Jupiter – Vesta?

 

[Jesterface23]

That just loops back around to what I said. Why post if not a forecast and the regions aren't even gone yet for compete observations?

[abc]

@Patrick Geryl butsunspot 2860 is not beat gamma delta

[Archmonoth]

19 hours ago, Patrick Geryl said:

 

Boy, You don't seem tho know that there are only a few planetoids that are in RESONANCE with the PLANETS. Do your research!

Pallas is in resonance with..

Chiron is in resonance with...

Next sunspots

September 9 (11:00)

September 6 (14:00) – 9 (20:30), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mercury - Earth – Chiron

September 6 (14:00) – 9 (20:30), 2021 Triple Line Up    Mercury - Earth – Chiron

September 9 (11:00) – 12 (16:30), 2021: Conjunction Earth - Pallas and the Sun

September 15 (20:00)

September 11 (09:30) – 16 (09:15), 2021: Conjunction Earth - Neptune and the Sun?

September 7 (18:15) – 20 (18:45), 2021: Opposition Vesta - Uranus across the Sun?

September 14 (23:50) – 16 (03:00), 2021: Conjunction Mercury - Venus and the Sun

September 15 (20:00) - 20 (10:30), 2021 Triple Line Up   Neptune - Mercury – Mars

September 15 (16:00)- November 13 (02:00), 2021 Triple Line Up   Neptune - Jupiter – Vesta?

 

 

How does Chiron have resonance with anything other than Pluto?

Both Pluto and Chiron are Trans-Neptunian objects (NTO)

 

Jupiter has 70 moons, they are all closer than Neptune or Pluto to the Sun. 

 

Is the Sun a wild card you throw in to make something triple? Why include the Sun in some line-ups, but not include the Sun in other combinations?

 

Don't you think the Sun should be included in all line-ups since the Sun is where the action is?

 

EDIT: For Chiron, 1 degree off from a straight-line for a conjunction is 11.3 million kilometers, and 56.8 million kilometers for 5 degrees. 

 

That means Chiron can be 1 degree off a straight line, and cover an area in the sky which Jupiter can be off by 13 degrees, and they will be in conjunction. The room for fuzzy conjunctions increases with more distance objects.

 

Perhaps limit conjunctions to barycenter. or reduce your definitions to less than 1 degree? 

 

Also Chiron is another minor asteroid/comet: 2060 Chiron - Wikipedia

"Although it was initially called an asteroid and classified only as a minor planet with the designation "2060 Chiron", it was later found to exhibit behavior typical of a comet. Today it is classified as both a minor planet and a comet, and is accordingly also known by the cometary designation 95P/Chiron." 

 

Math: 

Chiron's Aphelion+ Perihelion= 18.865 AU+8.4311 AU divided by 360 degrees. I'm still assuming circle-like orbits. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Archmonoth

[Brian Halls]

On 9/8/2021 at 1:30 AM, Newbie said:

Patrick: Now you have covered every day in September! You have gone from predicting very little activity in September,  to asking us to consider 12866 and 12868. The former is flaring at C2.3 last look! Is this flipping noise or an active sunspot group?

When I asked you to nominate the day of greatest activity you couldn't/wouldn't/didn't do it! Please don't say you have nailed it today, after the fact. Unless your predictions are to be applied retrospectively, which is a whole new ball game!

Newbie

Patrick is like many Independent Thinkers (a term coined by British astronomer, the late Sir Patrick Moore) - a group of people who defy accepted scientific thought/logic  (e.g Erich Von Daniken, Flat Earthers, Hollow Earthers, Atlantean's etc - the list is endless) who claim vindication for their ideas well after the event with a "told you so" even when they did not.

If nothing else Patrick G sticks to his guns regardless of what observational science says and will continue to do so regardless of what everyone else might say and even prove to him here. For that I can only admire him - wrong, so wrong, he may be. He will carry on with his theory until his detractors (myself and others) give up on this thread or, the moderators say "enough is enough" and close it down.

For now I just carry on reading this thread out of a morbid sense of curiosity.

 

[Newbie]

20 minutes ago, Brian Halls said:

Patrick is like many Independent Thinkers (a term coined by British astronomer, the late Sir Patrick Moore) - a group of people who defy accepted scientific thought/logic  (e.g Erich Von Daniken, Flat Earthers, Hollow Earthers, Atlantean's etc - the list is endless) who claim vindication for their ideas well after the event with a "told you so" even when they did not.

If nothing else Patrick G sticks to his guns regardless of what observational science says and will continue to do so regardless of what everyone else might say and even prove to him here. For that I can only admire him - wrong, so wrong, he may be. He will carry on with his theory until his detractors (myself and others) give up on this thread or, the moderators say "enough is enough" and close it down.

For now I just carry on reading this thread out of a morbid sense of curiosity.

 

I feel that it has run its course too. I wasn't going to post again.

Newbie

[3gMike]

3 hours ago, Brian Halls said:

For now I just carry on reading this thread out of a morbid sense of curiosity.

Brian,  Would you agree that scientific knowledge is generally advanced by those who are willing to challenge the status quo? Would you also agree that there is still much more for us to learn about the Sun?

Whilst I acknowledge that I am sceptical about Patrick's theory, I still feel that he should be allowed to share his views. It is possible that by encouraging him to share his ideas, and constructively challenging them, we may find that there is a tiny grain of truth within it that will lead us to a greater understanding of the processes within the Sun.

[Archmonoth]

2 hours ago, 3gMike said:

Brian,  Would you agree that scientific knowledge is generally advanced by those who are willing to challenge the status quo? Would you also agree that there is still much more for us to learn about the Sun?

Whilst I acknowledge that I am sceptical about Patrick's theory, I still feel that he should be allowed to share his views. It is possible that by encouraging him to share his ideas, and constructively challenging them, we may find that there is a tiny grain of truth within it that will lead us to a greater understanding of the processes within the Sun.

 

I think Patrick has ideas which are worth exploring. However those ideas appear to need refinement, especially with so much publicly available information. The refinement process will show patterns or connections not visible with broad definitions, or outdated information. 

 

For example: all the barycenters of the planets, and moons, and asteroids are recorded. Their mean motions, their angle to the the accretion disc etc. What we don't understand is how or if they affect sunspots. Isolating a single influence from Earth is difficult. However there seems to be smaller echoes of this interaction in Jupiter and it's moons, or the objects which spin around a barycenter very close to Pluto. Smaller systems could reveal mechanisms of turbulence. Maybe if Jupiter became a brown dwarf, we could compare types of perturbation with the Sun. 

 

In the future, when we can see the sunspots on other stars, which will probably be called Starspots, then we will have more comparative information for understanding these patterns and causes.

 

If I was Patrick, I would begin looking at the details of higher resolution images/data of nearby stars and their orbiting objects for comparative patterns.

 

Here is something from the University of Arizona, and the beginning of seeing other stars: Scientists Make Highest Resolution Photos Ever of the Night Sky (arizona.edu)

 

 

[Brian Halls]

6 hours ago, 3gMike said:

Brian,  Would you agree that scientific knowledge is generally advanced by those who are willing to challenge the status quo? Would you also agree that there is still much more for us to learn about the Sun?

Someone once said (to the effect): "It is good to have an open mind but not so open that your brains fall out". There is always a place for looking at ideas and theories - if those ideas and theories have flaws in them or they can be improved and they can be challenged with observational data. We are challenging here Patrick G's theories. Sadly they do not hold up due to too many holes and inconsistencies. The status quo is being challenged for challenge sake and not to truly advance science.

The creation and subsequent evolution of sunspots is pretty well understood now. There is still a lot to be learned about solar behaviour. I am sure scientific observation of solar behaviour will lead us to understand the processes in the Sun all the more and even subsequently the stars.

Not wishing to labour the point of my previous posts - the creation of sunspots lays within processes inside the Sun - not by, and I apologise for using the term, some sort of unknown 'pixie-dust' effect of solar system bodies.

[Christopher S.]

13 hours ago, 3gMike said:

Brian,  Would you agree that scientific knowledge is generally advanced by those who are willing to challenge the status quo? Would you also agree that there is still much more for us to learn about the Sun?

Whilst I acknowledge that I am sceptical about Patrick's theory, I still feel that he should be allowed to share his views. It is possible that by encouraging him to share his ideas, and constructively challenging them, we may find that there is a tiny grain of truth within it that will lead us to a greater understanding of the processes within the Sun.

Took the words right out of my mouth. 

I also want to add that @Archmonoth's ruthless and pedantic challenging of Patrick is no longer entertaining. It's going no where, just chill out...

[Brian Halls]

4 hours ago, Christopher S. said:

Took the words right out of my mouth. 

I also want to add that @Archmonoth's ruthless and pedantic challenging of Patrick is no longer entertaining. It's going no where, just chill out...

I think you will find that it is Patrick's theory that is going absolutely no where.  In answer to 3gMike - Patrick is indeed within his rights to introduce his theory here - equally Archmonoth (and anyone else) is within their rights to challenge the ideas being propounded in this arena. There are those who support Patrick's theory who perhaps have very little understanding of solar astronomy - they need to be shown the other side of the argument.

We will be disagreeing about this until the cows come home. There is absolutely nothing in Patrick's theory that holds any water. Sorry, but that is the truth. If Patrick can crack the maths - and he gets the Nobel prize as mentioned in a previous post - then it may be a totally different thing. But I doubt it...

 

[Patrick P.A. Geryl]

I am reworking my paper. Meanwhile you can look at the used program. Before anyone goes ballistic;

1. NASA has NO PROGRAM TO DO THIS, nor any other astronomical institute. Therefore no astronomer is looking at this possibility!

2. We use it only for ASTRONOMICAL purposes

3. The program is highly accurate

4. We tested it on long alignments and they work quite good in relation to sunspot activity.  

 

With this program you can calculate all the planetary alignments

http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog/astfile.htm

 Remark: It works reasonable, but the results can be quite more accurate if it could be reworked completely… Also a computer program is needed to calculate all the alignments from the past, link them to the strength and place of sunspots and calculate future possibilities. Without such a program, we need at least a dozen mathematicians to work full time to find comparable results…

 All three things below aren't difficult to calculate:

 1) Conjunction. This is easy once you have the position of the planets expressed in zodiac longitude (0Aries to 23Pisces, or 0-360 degrees). A conjunction is when two planets' positions are within whatever orb delta you specify. Astrolog's source code to do this is in GetAspect() in calc.cpp.

 

2) Computing an Opposition is the same as Conjunction, except each zodiac position needs to be 180 degrees apart, with an allowed deviance up to the orb. For example, 90 degrees and 271 degrees (179 degrees apart) is an opposition within an orb of 1 degree.

 

3)Triple planets is handled by treating it as a standard two planet problem. Treat one planet as the central planet (e.g. if Earth, then do geocentric positions) then compute zodiac positions with respect to that central planet, and check for aspects among the other two planets. For example, if Mars is the central planet, then Jupiter Conjunct Pallas means a Triple Line Up between Mars, Pallas, and Jupiter.

 

How does Astrolog work?

 Go to Setting/ Restrictions:

Restrict everything except the planets and the dwarf planets.

 Each individual planets or planetoid can be restricted at Setting/ Restrictions

 

Go to Setting/ Aspect Settings:

Restrict everything except Conjunction and Opposition

 This way it is easier to calculate the Triple Line Ups which are dark blue.

  

To calculate the Triple Line Ups

 Go to Setting/ Calculation Settings

Fill in the name of the planet or planetoid: Mercury, Venus, Mars, Vesta, Chiron….

To start: Go to Animate

Jump rate:

Seconds, minutes, hours, days….

Jump factor:

One unit, two units….

 Calculations at Setting:

a) Heliocentric: Conjunctions and Oppositions

b) Sidereal Zodiac: Triple Line Ups with the Earth and also Earth - Moon axis

 

Questions asked at Walter Pullen:

 How many degrees do you use for an opposition?

 Astrolog has different orbs for each aspect. The default orb for the opposition is 7 degrees. That orb can be increased or decreased in Aspect Settings if you want a different orb.

 If the Earth is in a line up with 2 other planets... How many degrees do you use then?

Some planets allow wider orbs, which means any aspect to that planet has that aspect's orb widened by some amount. The Sun and Moon by default allow a wider orb of 1 degree (again the amount for each planet can be customized in Object Settings). For example, a default Sun Mercury opposition can be 8 degrees, and a Sun Moon opposition can be 9 degrees (since the +1 orb is applied twice). Earth uses the same "object slot" as the Sun, so an opposition involving the Earth is by default 8 degrees (or 9 when also involving the Moon).

 Can you explain more about the Triple Line Ups?

Your "Triple Line Up" configurations can be found by searching for Opposition and Conjunction aspects with various center objects (-h switch). However, for a full line up in 3D space, you indeed want to consider the vertical latitude or declination above or below the ecliptic, and not just the horizontal zodiac position. Astrolog can use its Parallel Aspects feature (-gp and -ap switches) to show when planets are Parallel or Contraparallel on the vertical axis.

 In summary, it seems like you can do much of what you want in Astrolog by: For each planet and planetoid, make it the center object, then search for Opposition aspects. (If you do this, you ever don't need to consider Conjunction aspects, because if A and B are Conjunct with respect to center object C, then A and C will be Opposite with respect to B as the center object.) Anyway, for each Opposition aspect found, do an Astrolog parallel aspect list for just those two planets to check if they are also Contraparallel within an appropriate orb.

 Most everything can be automated with a batch script. For example, a loop to invoke Astrolog 15 times for the 10 planets and 5 planetoids, with each being the center object. There would need to be parsing of the list of Oppositions, to extract the time from the text output and reinvoke Astrolog to check whether the planets are Contraparallel as well at that time.

  

Some extra explanations for Astrolog:

Astrolog has supported other planet centered charts for over 24 years now, since version 2.20. It does it as simply as possible, and is basically a clone of the geocentric positioning code, except applied to a different planet. In other words, start with heliocentric positions, then offset the X,Y,Z coordinates by the central planet (so the central planet is at 0,0,0) and finally reapply the translation to polar coordinates to get zodiac longitude and latitude.

Astrolog keeps everything relative to Earth's ecliptic, and uses the same 0Aries point. It also treats houses and related objects like the Part of Fortune the same, as if one were still on Earth. To be fancier, a program could consider and use the new central planet's axis and rotation rate to do houses relative to that planet. However where is 0Longitude on Mars, if say one wanted to do charts for the Mars landers? If you do this, then you may also want to change date and time entry and display, so you can consider "Mars days" and so on, although that gets even more complicated. Again this is why Astrolog does the minimum, to keep things as simple and understandable as possible.

[Archmonoth]

6 hours ago, Patrick Geryl said:

I am reworking my paper. Meanwhile you can look at the used program. Before anyone goes ballistic;

1. NASA has NO PROGRAM TO DO THIS, nor any other astronomical institute. Therefore no astronomer is looking at this possibility!

Because the angles and degrees are based on astrological signs. Why would they use such vague definitions and areas in the sky when precise measurements are publicly available? 

 

6 hours ago, Patrick Geryl said:

2. We use it only for ASTRONOMICAL purposes

Then perhaps use astronomical data, rather than astrology?

 

6 hours ago, Patrick Geryl said:

3. The program is highly accurate

4. We tested it on long alignments and they work quite good in relation to sunspot activity.  

This is because the allowable angles use vague astrology data, which means you can have conjunctions at any time, and claim they were positioned when sunspots occure.

 

Perhaps if barycenter were added to the calculations, and showed Jupiter's affect on the Sun?

How about the angles of conjunctions with elliptical orbits? Or orbits which are above the accretion disc like Eris?

Why not include magnetic topology from the Sun? Or internal Sun dynamics into your calculations? 

 

6 hours ago, Patrick Geryl said:

 

 1) Conjunction. This is easy once you have the position of the planets expressed in zodiac longitude (0Aries to 23Pisces, or 0-360 degrees). A conjunction is when two planets' positions are within whatever orb delta you specify. Astrolog's source code to do this is in GetAspect() in calc.cpp.

Using broad enough angles will get you anything. 

 

6 hours ago, Patrick Geryl said:

 

2) Computing an Opposition is the same as Conjunction, except each zodiac position needs to be 180 degrees apart, with an allowed deviance up to the orb. For example, 90 degrees and 271 degrees (179 degrees apart) is an opposition within an orb of 1 degree.

These are astrology terms. There is no opposition-like definition in Astronomy, nor does it become defined by claiming it is for astronomical purposes. Again, spreading those angles out based on astrology houses is not an Astronomy term, nor does it translate, especially with elliptical orbits.

 

Perhaps try using terms and information related to the Perihelion/Aphelion, which have precise distances? 

 

6 hours ago, Patrick Geryl said:

 

3)Triple planets is handled by treating it as a standard two planet problem. Treat one planet as the central planet (e.g. if Earth, then do geocentric positions) then compute zodiac positions with respect to that central planet, and check for aspects among the other two planets. For example, if Mars is the central planet, then Jupiter Conjunct Pallas means a Triple Line Up between Mars, Pallas, and Jupiter.

Why would you use a central planet if the Sun is where the alignment needs to be pointed at? 

Why include Pallas again? but not the other asteroid moons/planets/comets? All their information is publicly available.

 

6 hours ago, Patrick Geryl said:

 

Questions asked at Walter Pullen:

 How many degrees do you use for an opposition?

 Astrolog has different orbs for each aspect. The default orb for the opposition is 7 degrees. That orb can be increased or decreased in Aspect Settings if you want a different orb.

7 degrees is a very large amount of area in the sky for allowance. Especially if you are including Pluto or Neptune, you can probably cover any area of the sky you need with a little hand-waving. 

 

A fictional lineup:

Mercury, Jupiter, Pluto

For fiction sake, lets pretend they all line up at their Perihelion distance, this is when they are closest to the Sun, and perhaps the most likely to have an affect. (Mill=Million, Km= Kilometers, AU= Astronomical units)

Mercury Perihelion: 0.387 AU (57 mill Km)

Jupiter Perihelion: 4.95 AU (742 mill Km)

Pluto Perihelion: 29.658 AU (4.4 bill Km)

 

How does Pluto have an affect on the Sun at 4.4 billion kilometers a way when it is 0.00218 the mass of Earth?

Mercury only has 0.056 of Earth's mass, and Jupiter has 317 Earth's masses. Why are combinations treated equally by your predictions?

How does being in a line, even in an absolute line, with the closest distance to the Sun, affect the Sun?  

Can you describe some kind of hypothesis to test? 

 

6 hours ago, Patrick Geryl said:

  Astrolog keeps everything relative to Earth's ecliptic, and uses the same 0Aries point. 

Why wouldn't you use the Sun as the relative point? 

[Jesterface23]

For your lineup outlook research I would still highly recommend setting up a database at some point. Data that Astrolog doesn't have can in time be implemented as well.

[Patrick P.A. Geryl]

13 uren geleden, Archmonoth zei:

 

 

How does Pluto have an affect on the Sun at 4.4 billion kilometers a way when it is 0.00218 the mass of Earth?

Mercury only has 0.056 of Earth's mass, and Jupiter has 317 Earth's masses. Why are combinations treated equally by your predictions?

How does being in a line, even in an absolute line, with the closest distance to the Sun, affect the Sun?  

Can you describe some kind of hypothesis to test? 

 

 

 

A long time ago there was a smart astronomer... Clearly he was lost in time...

Sunspots are created from a combination from gravitational tides and radio signals. This has been known for a long time, but wasn't investigated enough. Here is an article with basic calculations about the electrostatic effects from planets on the Sun: http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/85/579/309.full.pdf

1 uur geleden, Jesterface23 zei:

For your lineup outlook research I would still highly recommend setting up a database at some point. Data that Astrolog doesn't have can in time be implemented as well.

Don't understand what you mean

From my to be republished paper.

Clearly not many did read it...

In 2008 NASA sent this headline into the world, “Magnetic Portals Connect Earth to the Sun.”

Highlights from the 2008 (October 30^th) NASA article:

“During the time it takes you to read this article, something will happen high overhead that until recently many scientists didn't believe in.  A magnetic portal will open, linking Earth to the sun 93 million miles away. Tons of high-energy particles may flow through the opening before it closes again, around the time you reach the end of the page.  Researchers have long known that the Earth and sun must be connected. Earth's magnetosphere (the magnetic bubble that surrounds our planet) is filled with particles from the sun that arrive via the solar wind and penetrate the planet's magnetic defenses. They enter by following magnetic field lines that can be traced from terra firma all the way back to the sun's atmosphere.“ "We used to think the connection was permanent and that solar wind could trickle into the near-Earth environment anytime the wind was active," says Sibeck. "We were wrong. The connections are not steady at all. They are often brief, bursty and very dynamic."

Nasa also found a connection between Mercury, Venus, Mars and the Sun. If we assume that the same principle can be applied for all the planets and also for five planetoids, then we find a surprising connection between planetary alignments and the creation of sunspots.  In short;  Planetary alignments create certain magnetic inductions that are amplified by the magnetic field of the Sun. With this principle we can calculate how and when sunspots will be created and which magnetic memory they will have.

 

2.0 Planetary alignment theory

 

·         The Sun sends charged particles within the solar wind, this ‘loads’ the planets ‘up’. We include Pluto as a planet because the calculations show a huge effect from Pluto on the Sun.

·         The moon has no magnetic field, but has a big difference in polarity between the side that is looking to the Sun and the side looking away from the Sun.

·         When planets align...they send a kind of radio signal, probably a GSM-like signal.

·         This radio signal is taken up by the magnetic field of the Sun and then made stronger, just like a GSM signal is made stronger when it reaches your apparatus.

·         The portals that connect the Earth with the Sun are overwhelming proof of this principle.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Patrick Geryl

[Jesterface23]

Astrolog either has the data stored somewhere or has the values needed to calculate the orbits.

If you use a database you can store the orbits and any other data along with it. You would need to know a database like MySQL and a coding language like PHP. 

I'm just noting as I know it would be useful. 

 

1 hour ago, Patrick Geryl said:

"We used to think the connection was permanent and that solar wind could trickle into the near-Earth environment anytime the wind was active," says Sibeck. "We were wrong. The connections are not steady at all. They are often brief, bursty and very dynamic."

And I have seen this before.

[Brian Halls]

2 hours ago, Patrick Geryl said:

Sunspots are created from a combination from gravitational tides and radio signals. This has been known for a long time,

You make the statement but don't back it up though you quote Dr Arthur Schuster's Royal Society paper of 1911 which speculates on planetary/solar connections but bares no relevance on your claims of being able to predict the appearance of sunspots.

The generally accepted cause of of sunspots is the magnetic flux tubes in the convection layer - the area which lays below the visible white light photosphere that we can see - that are wound up and distorted by differential rotation of the Sun - the solar equator rotates faster than high latitudes - like twisting a rubber band or a small length of rope that is twisted from either end in opposite directions, kinks in the flux tube break through the photosphere; having a strong magnetic field these tend to 'cool' (relatively) the photosphere. These cool patches are the sunspots.

At the beginning of the previous paragraph I wrote "...generally accepted..." No one is for sure but the theory and observation of solar behaviour make this an almost certain cause. I will certainly say this is my opinion.

Sunspots caused by gravitational tides? Certainly researchers from the Helmholtz-Zentrum Dresden-Rossendorf (HZDR) institute suggested so but their research indicates only a Venus-Earth-Jupiter configuration (something that occurs every 11.07 years) influencing the solar magnetic field. Sadly they do not seem to have followed up this line of investigation. There is still no real evidence that planetary tides affecting the life of sunspots or for that matter being able to accurately predict their arrivals as you have made.

Radio signals causing sunspots. Where are these radio signals coming from. Uranus? What has been known for a long time is that solar activity - sometimes generated by sunspots, some times not, does cause wireless interference here on Earth.

I cannot see why you included the piece on 'portals'. The portals occur as a result of interaction between highly charged particles pouring out of the Sun and interacting with our Earth's magnetosphere. This is a one-way event or a Flux Transfer Event (FTE). The term portal would seem to describe to people - myself included- some form of corridor that might be traversed in both directions. This is not the case with an FTE.

I certainly concur with Archmonoth regarding the use of Astrolog as a program even for "...astronomical..." use. The free planetarium program KStars has a nice little solar system layout feature, though it lacks inclusion of minor planets.

Pluto having an effect on the Sun? All the planetary alignments might look very nice in Astrolog or KStars or what ever program you are using to simulate on the screen but that is all in 2-D; in real life the solar system is in 3-D.

The planets are all inclined a little relative to their orbits around the Sun, so what appears as a nice uniform straight line on a screen (or even a piece of good old fashioned piece of paper,) is actually in reality curved. Pluto's inclination to the ecliptic is just over 17-degrees (Jupiter is just 1.3-degrees). Therefore as Pluto is well above the ecliptic its combined effect with any other solar system body on the Sun is weakened (if indeed there is any effect, which I doubt.)

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Brian Halls

[Patrick P.A. Geryl]

18 minuten geleden, Brian Halls zei:

 

Pluto having an effect on the Sun? All the planetary alignments might look very nice in Astrolog or KStars or what ever program you are using to simulate on the screen but that is all in 2-D; in real life the solar system is in 3-D.

The planets are all inclined a little relative to their orbits around the Sun, so what appears as a nice uniform straight line on a screen (or even a piece of good old fashioned piece of paper,) is actually in reality curved. Pluto's inclination to the ecliptic is just over 17-degrees (Jupiter is just 1.3-degrees). Therefore as Pluto is well above the ecliptic its combined effect with any other solar system body on the Sun is weakened (if indeed there is any effect, which I doubt.)

 

 

 

a bit of googling would have helped…

even NASA Made a surprise discovery. Leave it up to you to find it.
 

Radio Waves, Sunspots, and Planets, June 1959 Popular Electronics - RF Cafe


https://www.rfcafe.com/references/popular-electronics/radio-waves-sunspots-planets-6-1959-popular-electronics.htm

 

[Brian Halls]

1 hour ago, Patrick Geryl said:

a bit of googling would have helped…

even NASA Made a surprise discovery. Leave it up to you to find it.
 

Radio Waves, Sunspots, and Planets, June 1959 Popular Electronics - RF Cafe


https://www.rfcafe.com/references/popular-electronics/radio-waves-sunspots-planets-6-1959-popular-electronics.htm

 

Thank you for drawing my attention to the interesting 1959 article in the link. Certainly nothing there to dispute regarding solar activity and radio propagation, long been known. Nothing there however to justify your earlier claim that radio waves cause sunspots.

It is a shame you were unable to include the link regarding "...NASA's.. surprise discovery..." You can supply one link but are obtuse about another - why?

[3gMike]

4 hours ago, Brian Halls said:

Thank you for drawing my attention to the interesting 1959 article in the link. Certainly nothing there to dispute regarding solar activity and radio propagation, long been known. Nothing there however to justify your earlier claim that radio waves cause sunspots.

Whilst you are correct to say that disturbance of the ionosphere by solar activity is well known, the article specifically claimed that an association had been identified with planetary alignments. this section is particularly interesting in respect of Patrick's claims;

"Important Relationships. The results of Mr. Nelson's plottings of the planetary positions over more than ten years of research have brought to light six important facts about the relationships of the planets and radio conditions on Earth. These are the significant relationships which he uses in making forecasts, and may be summed up as follows:

(1) Best radio reception periods occur when Saturn and Jupiter are 120° apart .

(2) The most severe disturbances occur when Mars, Venus, Mercury and the Earth are in critical relationship near points of the Saturn-Jupiter configuration.

(3) When two or more planets are at right angles to each other, or in line on the same side of the Sun, or in line with the Sun between them, magnetic disturbances occur more frequently on the Earth's surface. (See Fig. 2.)

(4) When the planets have moved away from their critical relationship, there is a corresponding decline in the severity of the magnetic weather.

(5) Three planets equally spaced at 15°, 30°,60°, or 120° have a tendency to produce disturbed radio signals if two of the planets are fast-moving and one is a slow-moving planet, or if all three are fast-moving planets.

(6) Three planets equally spaced at 60° and four planets equally spaced at 60° will disturb radio signals if at least two or more of the planets are fast-moving. If three or more of the planets in this arrangement are slow planets, no disturbance will occur.

Successful Predictions. Mr. Nelson does not attempt to explain why these things happen as they do. What he has learned from his study is that they do happen. Proof? His predictions are successful!

In making a forecast, Mr. Nelson starts by calculating the positions of the planets with respect to each other. When a significant combination of angles is indicated, he then calculates the positions to plus or minus 6 minutes of arc for each hour of the day. It is this data which allows him to make the forecast.

The implications of John Nelson's work with the planets and radio waves leaves one with the impression that planetary positions might be important in other phases of our lives. Perhaps the ancients' superstitious study of the heavens deserves reevaluation by those of us interested in modern science."

Does any of that sound familiar?

Edited September 11, 2021 by 3gMike
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