Region 3190

[mozy]

Who would've guessed, the region is getting unstable now with multiple upper C-flares & now even reaching M

[Philalethes]

13 minutes ago, mozy said:

Who would've guessed, the region is getting unstable now with multiple upper C-flares & now even reaching M

Looks like it's some significant M-flaring at this point; from SUVI it looks like both this (3190) and 3192 are flaring, hard to tell what the source is or if it's both combined.

[mozy]

2 minutes ago, Philalethes Bythos said:

Looks like it's some significant M-flaring at this point; from SUVI it looks like both this (3190) and 3192 are flaring, hard to tell what the source is or if it's both combined.

yh I noticed

Looks eruptive aswell

Edited January 25, 2023 by mozy

[Solarflaretracker200]

On 1/22/2023 at 7:56 AM, Solarflaretracker200 said:

Ah, the calm before the storm 🤣

Well I was kidding about this now I’m wondering if this is going to happen. 🤣 

[Philalethes]

6 hours ago, mozy said:

yh I noticed

Looks eruptive aswell

Yep, looks like there was a CME from the final image of LASCO C3:

The background flux has remained relatively high too, some flaring rising towards M as I write this (C8.23).

Edited January 25, 2023 by Philalethes Bythos

[mozy]

6 minutes ago, Philalethes Bythos said:

The background flux has remained relatively high too, some flaring rising towards M as I write this (C8.23).

They're firing simultaneously once again, fascinating.

[Philalethes]

22 minutes ago, mozy said:

They're firing simultaneously once again, fascinating.

Yeah, this M1.3 is ascribed to 3192 by SolarSoft. Could always be coincidence, but these two definitely seem to be flaring in tandem. And of course just as they move towards and beyond the limb.

[WildWill]

34 minutes ago, mozy said:

They're firing simultaneously once again, fascinating.

I believe there is something else also going on, from something already around the limb which is contributing to the M flux we saw earlier. Seemed like a very slow comedown from the M 4.6 this morning. This coupled with the relatively high background flux, leads me to believe there are several events going on simultaneously - as Mozy pointed out, both AR13190 and AR24192 are kickin it again. I think there is probably a contribution from AR13194, along with something(s) (possibly) out of sight around the W limb.
 

Also, at this point, I don't believe that we can accurately determine the magnetic configuration or complexity of AR13190 or AR13194. 
 

Enjoy the show! 
 

W&A
 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by WildWill
Autocorrect autocorrected text

[WildWill]

Looking at SUVI/EUVI we can clearly see flares on AR13190 and AR13192 and AR14194. AR13190 appears to be the main contributor at this point. There is also some flux emanating from AR13200. Perhaps small flare or filament, not sure what's driving it, but it's pushing out the x-rays as well.
Also, perhaps something beyond the limb as I suggested earlier.  

Just the way it should be - all the ARs working together to maintain a nice background flux and a nice show in the foreground!  Way to go ARs - great teamwork! 
 

W&A
 

 

I like these two composite images from SUVI. You can see the ejection happening in pink above AR13190 in the blueish one. There also appears to be some contribution from AR13198.

while I see something behind the SE limb, I’m not convinced it’s real.., been fooled too many times… 

Sure is a beauty, our sun, ain’t she?
 

[3gMike]

On 1/24/2023 at 7:08 PM, Drax Spacex said:

The HMI Magnetogram colormap has a range of +/- 1500G, so we probably aren't seeing the detailed transition between umbra and penumbra as described in the 2019 article (1849G-4000G).

Thanks for pointing that out. That does suggest that the shading we see around the umbra on the coloured magnetogram is at a much lower field strength - perhaps as low as 250 to 500G - so it cannot be directly related to the penumbra as I described.

That said, I found an image for AR2835 that suggests separate penumbra can be observed, even for spots in close proximity.

 

On 1/24/2023 at 7:08 PM, Drax Spacex said:

The high-resolution images that do show the detail, especially when animated, are very interesting, and you can really get a sense of flow and direction.

Can you please provide a link for these images?

[WildWill]

4 hours ago, 3gMike said:

Thanks for pointing that out. That does suggest that the shading we see around the umbra on the coloured magnetogram is at a much lower field strength - perhaps as low as 250 to 500G - so it cannot be directly related to the penumbra as I described.

That said, I found an image for AR2835 that suggests separate penumbra can be observed, even for spots in close proximity.

 

Can you please provide a link for these images?

Hiya 3g!

Keep in Ming, it’s not the date, but the source and the date - which I know you already know…

You had hit on a recent article suggest that the core rotates more slowly. I read an article just a few months ago suggesting that the core rotates at about four times the angular velocity of the surface. So, one revolution in about 6 days! 
 

I have filed it under “unproven theories”, but it is still interesting to study and explore! I just wanted to level-set..

All y’all have a good one!

W&A

As in Ming the Merciless!

[Philalethes]

7 hours ago, WildWill said:

I read an article just a few months ago suggesting that the core rotates at about four times the angular velocity of the surface. So, one revolution in about 6 days! 
 

I have filed it under “unproven theories”, but it is still interesting to study and explore! I just wanted to level-set..

I've seen these reports too, and the evidence does seem to stack up. In his recent update (at 17:07), McIntosh also mentions how sunspots, being anchored deeper down than the surface, indeed tend to travel faster than the surface, congruent with the inside layers of Sol rotating faster than the outside layers. It also makes sense when considering Sol as a giant ball of plasma, with the outside layers essentially being dragged along the inner layers, much like our own atmosphere (which is why we have e.g. trade winds).

I'm not quite sure I caught the connection between this and anything in the comment you quoted, though; perhaps I'm missing something? Also, this might be deserving of its own topic, but since 3190 is practically gone I guess it's not as important to remain on-topic anymore.

[Drax Spacex]

18 hours ago, 3gMike said:

Can you please provide a link for these images?

I was referring to the images posted in this thread including the animation that was posted by Jesterface23.  I don't know the original source for them.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jT0ZBojUnyuv_B_TbckBdrkD81PM4kju/view

[WildWill]

7 hours ago, Philalethes Bythos said:

I've seen these reports too, and the evidence does seem to stack up. In his recent update (at 17:07), McIntosh also mentions how sunspots, being anchored deeper down than the surface, indeed tend to travel faster than the surface, congruent with the inside layers of Sol rotating faster than the outside layers. It also makes sense when considering Sol as a giant ball of plasma, with the outside layers essentially being dragged along the inner layers, much like our own atmosphere (which is why we have e.g. trade winds).

I'm not quite sure I caught the connection between this and anything in the comment you quoted, though; perhaps I'm missing something? Also, this might be deserving of its own topic, but since 3190 is practically gone I guess it's not as important to remain on-topic anymore.

Howdy,

Sorry about that - I’ll connect up the dots…. I had received a message about a paper (2019) which suggested that the core rotates much more slowly than the surface and has even reversed direction on more than one occasion. The messaging on here looks just like a post… and I had a brain freeze… 
 

I believe both of these suppositions belong under the heading of “unproven theories”.  
 

I have read that at the top of the photosphere, there is a (laminar) thin layer of plasma which is moving opposite the direction of rotation. I believe this is generally accepted. 
 

I do agree with you regarding the rotation of the core being faster than the outer layers. It makes sense; however, we really don’t know. However, I’m not sure I can support the totally your explanation for differential rotation rates at different latitudes. If you take an infinitesimal cube of plasma at the surface of the sun and explore the forces acting upon it, you find the curl to be non-zero along two axis. Which in turn, induces additional pressure forces. One axis is the axis of rotation and the other is perpendicular (parallel to r). Both are positive using the right hand rule. This leads to some interesting dynamics. But I digress even further from the topic, AR13190, which has been saving it all up for an X-11 flare tomorrow! 

This is actually more along the lines of my focus in studying the sun. I’ve been working on modeling the different layers of the sun, and the transitions in between. 
 

Cheers.

W&A

[3gMike]

On 1/19/2023 at 11:51 PM, Jesterface23 said:

It would be this right in the center of the sunspot that keeps coming and going,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jT0ZBojUnyuv_B_TbckBdrkD81PM4kju/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pPcQyCMwS5jQsjt3CYOdT9C4XZLxU1aQ/view

Maybe there is another word for it, but overloading the sensor is the best I've got. It has occurred with other strong spots in sunspot regions in the archive, so we know what it is (sort of). I guess it would just be finding the correct term for what is happening.

............

Well, I asked, so maybe we will find out tomorrow.

Can you please let me know what was the original source of these animations? If you produced the animation where did you obtain the original data?

Thanks.

[WildWill]

Howdy All Y’all, 

Regarding the “blip” that Jesterface caught… my opinion is still that it’s “nothing”, but it was a nice catch anyway. 

The term “blip” or noise is probably the best description I have for “it”. Jesterface has assumed that it is something that actually registered on the sensor. More than likely it is a data processing “error” (for lack of a better term), which has not yet been scrubbed. As the gentleman from Goddard Space Flight Center suggested, this data has not been fully processed, and shouldn’t be relied upon as scientific data. 
 

If, in fact, this “blip” is anything other than a processing artifact, then it should be visible in the fully processed, scientific datasets. So, the easiest way to see if it was in fact “anything” would be to obtain the fully processed data which they distribute for scientific use - the “ready for prime time” stuff… 

There will always be “noise” and “unexplained blips” in processing data from a sensor such as this. A boson and anti-boson could pop into existence in one of the wells and cause a bigger reaction within - leading to a “blip” coming out of that well (pixel). 
 

Nice catch though…

Cheers.

W&A
 

20 hours ago, 3gMike said:

Thanks for pointing that out. That does suggest that the shading we see around the umbra on the coloured magnetogram is at a much lower field strength - perhaps as low as 250 to 500G - so it cannot be directly related to the penumbra as I described.

That said, I found an image for AR2835 that suggests separate penumbra can be observed, even for spots in close proximity.

 

Can you please provide a link for these images?

Howdy 3g,

In looking at the beautiful image you’ve posted, I can see there are a number of circles drawn on it. Each with a bright “dot” inside. Do you know what these are? Pores, perhaps? Or Ellerman bombs?? 
 

Cool image! 
 

Would you mind sourcing your image? ;-).

Thanks Much!

W&A

[Sam Warfel]

29 minutes ago, WildWill said:

Howdy All Y’all, 

Regarding the “blip” that Jesterface caught… my opinion is still that it’s “nothing”, but it was a nice catch anyway. 

The term “blip” or noise is probably the best description I have for “it”. Jesterface has assumed that it is something that actually registered on the sensor. More than likely it is a data processing “error” (for lack of a better term), which has not yet been scrubbed. As the gentleman from Goddard Space Flight Center suggested, this data has not been fully processed, and shouldn’t be relied upon as scientific data. 
 

If, in fact, this “blip” is anything other than a processing artifact, then it should be visible in the fully processed, scientific datasets. So, the easiest way to see if it was in fact “anything” would be to obtain the fully processed data which they distribute for scientific use - the “ready for prime time” stuff… 

There will always be “noise” and “unexplained blips” in processing data from a sensor such as this. A boson and anti-boson could pop into existence in one of the wells and cause a bigger reaction within - leading to a “blip” coming out of that well (pixel). 
 

Nice catch though…

Cheers.

W&A
 

Howdy 3g,

In looking at the beautiful image you’ve posted, I can see there are a number of circles drawn on it. Each with a bright “dot” inside. Do you know what these are? Pores, perhaps? Or Ellerman bombs?? 
 

Cool image! 
 

Would you mind sourcing your image? ;-).

Thanks Much!

W&A

Those looked like Ellerman bombs to me, but I’d be interested to see the source of the image to confirm or correct that 

[3gMike]

1 hour ago, WildWill said:

In looking at the beautiful image you’ve posted, I can see there are a number of circles drawn on it. Each with a bright “dot” inside. Do you know what these are? Pores, perhaps? Or Ellerman bombs?? 
 

Cool image! 
 

Would you mind sourcing your image? ;-).

Thanks Much!

Hi Will,

Yes, it was your reference to Ellerman bombs that led me to that image - Thanks !

https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/44659/what-are-ellerman-bombs-and-how-can-we-identify-them

[WildWill]

56 minutes ago, Sam Warfel said:

Those looked like Ellerman bombs to me, but I’d be interested to see the source of the image to confirm or correct that 

Speaking of Ellerman bombs, I managed to catch another one just a little while ago. From the time I spotted it, second circle around the sun, so it couldn't have been long, until it faded into just another dot was about 8 minutes, give or take.

I didn't think Ellerman bombs because they usually show much more brightly. And I haven't seen them go off a dozen at a time over a small area. But, just cause I haven't seen it, doesn't make it not so.. 

I hope they are Ellerman bombs. I would love to see a display like that. 
 

Cheers

W&A

1 minute ago, 3gMike said:

Hi Will,

Yes, it was your reference to Ellerman bombs that led me to that image - Thanks !

https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/44659/what-are-ellerman-bombs-and-how-can-we-identify-them

I didn't even catch that when I went through the article...  gonna have to put my glasses on and read it again!

Thanks!

[3gMike]

On 1/25/2023 at 10:04 AM, Philalethes Bythos said:

Looks like it's some significant M-flaring at this point; from SUVI it looks like both this (3190) and 3192 are flaring, hard to tell what the source is or if it's both combined.

The WSO photospheric map, published yesterday, shows how closely the magnetic fields associated with these two ARs come together. It is perhaps not surprising that they exhibit sympathetic flaring.

AR3190 at C124, 14S

AR3192 at C121, 15N

[Philalethes]

2 hours ago, WildWill said:

However, I’m not sure I can support the totally your explanation for differential rotation rates at different latitudes.

Well, I was actually talking about the posited differential rotation rates at different depths, since that was what you were mentioning; not at different latitudes. I believe this is generally termed "internal differential rotation" to distinguish the two. I only mentioned the atmospheric drag on Earth as an analogy; in this case the drag would be inner layers dragging the outer layers rather than the mid-latitudes dragging the more extreme latitudes. I suppose the general case is the same, but the dynamics of the two might have some significant differences.

I certainly agree that the complex and moving electromagnetic fields most likely do indeed lead to dynamics that wouldn't exist if it were merely a gas, like the atmosphere. I'd venture to guess that both types of differential rotation (if there indeed is internal differential rotation as well) are probably partially caused by both; however, I'd also guess that differential rotation due to drag would be the primary cause for such dynamics to develop in the first place. This seems to crop up anywhere there is anything non-solid that's rotating and being compressed. It also seems to be the case in general in magnetohydrodynamic systems that the initial movement is caused by something external, which then proceeds to cause subsequent complex dynamics due to the ensuing self-interactions; a charged particle is moved, creating a magnetic field, in turn causing other charged particles to move, in turn creating more complex magnetic fields (and so on, you know the drill), but usually that first movement has its origins in a cause previous to the self-interaction, at least that's what it seems to be the case to me. Needless to say my own understanding is also quite limited in the grand scheme of things, so there's plenty of room for misconceptions.

[WildWill]

1 hour ago, Philalethes Bythos said:

Well, I was actually talking about the posited differential rotation rates at different depths, since that was what you were mentioning; not at different latitudes. I believe this is generally termed "internal differential rotation" to distinguish the two. I only mentioned the atmospheric drag on Earth as an analogy; in this case the drag would be inner layers dragging the outer layers rather than the mid-latitudes dragging the more extreme latitudes. I suppose the general case is the same, but the dynamics of the two might have some significant differences.

I certainly agree that the complex and moving electromagnetic fields most likely do indeed lead to dynamics that wouldn't exist if it were merely a gas, like the atmosphere. I'd venture to guess that both types of differential rotation (if there indeed is internal differential rotation as well) are probably partially caused by both; however, I'd also guess that differential rotation due to drag would be the primary cause for such dynamics to develop in the first place. This seems to crop up anywhere there is anything non-solid that's rotating and being compressed. It also seems to be the case in general in magnetohydrodynamic systems that the initial movement is caused by something external, which then proceeds to cause subsequent complex dynamics due to the ensuing self-interactions; a charged particle is moved, creating a magnetic field, in turn causing other charged particles to move, in turn creating more complex magnetic fields (and so on, you know the drill), but usually that first movement has its origins in a cause previous to the self-interaction, at least that's what it seems to be the case to me. Needless to say my own understanding is also quite limited in the grand scheme of things, so there's plenty of room for misconceptions.

The math would suggest that plasma beneath the surface follows a path similar to a semi-stable orbit of L2 -  like JWST follows...  

Of course, that Carrie's a lot of assumptions with it, like incompressible, steady flows. Neither are magnetic forces. The model would suggest this could provide a dynamo action and generate magnetic fields.

But I've got a lot of assumptions wrapped up in there. 

I was actually referring to both depth  and latitude at different points. Sorry if I was unclear. I view them as being coupled... 

Cheers.

[Jesterface23]

6 hours ago, 3gMike said:

Can you please let me know what was the original source of these animations? If you produced the animation where did you obtain the original data?

Thanks.

I use JHelioviewer. There are a lot of options imagery and setting and is pretty cool. There is helioviewer.org, but that is a bit limited. The magnetogram imagery isn't the best with JHelioviewer, would be one thing.

 

......

 

Might as well have a 3190 sendoff video,
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lpFS6AMm45aWg7iwjHoEBFrcMwVQXGJZ/view

Edited January 27, 2023 by Jesterface23

[Drax Spacex]

6 hours ago, Jesterface23 said:

Might as well have a 3190 sendoff video,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lpFS6AMm45aWg7iwjHoEBFrcMwVQXGJZ/view

A fitting tribute!  Well centered and tracked across its transit.  The evolution looks even a bit creepy - like a marauding microscopic macrophage or a Douglas Trumbull (RIP) practical special effect.