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Sporadic-E Radio Propagation


KW2P

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Fascinating stuff! I loved learning all throughout your post, and I'd have to say - in my inexpertise, I agree with the 2012 paper, suggesting a collection of meteorite particles as the true cause to the radio waves reflective element(s) at around 60 miles.

 

Wind shear and all -

 

 

My Many Thanks for the Well-Put-Together Read,

Best,

-SJW

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I do wonder if a cloud of metal particles alone is sufficient to enable RF refraction or if ionization is required.   Project Needles was supposed to test this, but the results are unknown.

Es seems to have a lot in common with meteor scatter (aka meteor burst or MB) RF propagation mode.  They occur at about the same altitude, both short-lived (though meteor scatter is quite short-lived - only lasting on the order of seconds per meteor).  Meteor scatter has been investigated as a viable operational mode of RF propagation:  https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA271604.

That paper describes the importance of "coherent scatter" which diminshes as the meteor tail spreads out and the sweet-spot value range for "electron density" to support a viable MB radio link.

A tantalizing quote from this paper:  "The Antarctic test of MB terminals demonstrated a persistent non-meteoric propagation mechanism, possibly sporadic E, which dominated link performance. Although this phenomena masked most, if not all, meteor trail-scatter events, it demonstrated nearly continuous VHF connectivity at a range of about 1400 km."

 

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United Parcel Systems actually used ( perhaps still does ) meteor scatter propagation to reliably track their shipments. So evidently they placed a lot of faith in the reliability of apparently random events.  I believe they got 220-222 mhz of our former allocation. Well guess we could have told them it wouldn’t have worked well for voice!  Data bursts perhaps.  was reallocated last year to our railroads. 

Edited by hamateur 1953
updated after checking current status.
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34 minutes ago, hamateur 1953 said:

United Parcel Systems actually used ( perhaps still does ) meteor scatter propagation to reliably track their shipments. So evidently they placed a lot of faith in the reliability of apparently random events.  I believe they got 220-222 mhz of our former allocation. Well guess we could have told them it wouldn’t have worked well for voice!  Data bursts perhaps.  was reallocated last year to our railroads. 

That seems do-able. We hams operate under narrow bandwidth restrictions and artificial data rate limitations. UPS or rail companies could use a 30 kHz bandwidth and much higher data rate to achieve good performance -- a ping/response time of a small fraction of a second.

2 hours ago, Drax Spacex said:

 

I do wonder if a cloud of metal particles alone is sufficient to enable RF refraction or if ionization is required.   Project Needles was supposed to test this, but the results are unknown.

Es seems to have a lot in common with meteor scatter (aka meteor burst or MB) RF propagation mode.  They occur at about the same altitude, both short-lived (though meteor scatter is quite short-lived - only lasting on the order of seconds per meteor).  Meteor scatter has been investigated as a viable operational mode of RF propagation:  https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA271604.

That paper describes the importance of "coherent scatter" which diminshes as the meteor tail spreads out and the sweet-spot value range for "electron density" to support a viable MB radio link.

A tantalizing quote from this paper:  "The Antarctic test of MB terminals demonstrated a persistent non-meteoric propagation mechanism, possibly sporadic E, which dominated link performance. Although this phenomena masked most, if not all, meteor trail-scatter events, it demonstrated nearly continuous VHF connectivity at a range of about 1400 km."

 

Hmm, it sounds like they discovered something interesting like near-continuous Sporadic-E at the poles.

As far as ionization, I don't know. We know that intense UV can ionize the D-Layer, which is the cause of blackouts. And while Sporadic-E is more likely to occur during the day, it also occurs at night when there's no source of ionization.

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Fascinating Drax. They were also using our maximum input power at 1kw around 48 mhz just below our six meter band. I remember once talking with naval station NPG out of san francisco he refused to divulge his input power 🤣🤣🤣

2 hours ago, Drax Spacex said:

 

I do wonder if a cloud of metal particles alone is sufficient to enable RF refraction or if ionization is required.   Project Needles was supposed to test this, but the results are unknown.

Es seems to have a lot in common with meteor scatter (aka meteor burst or MB) RF propagation mode.  They occur at about the same altitude, both short-lived (though meteor scatter is quite short-lived - only lasting on the order of seconds per meteor).  Meteor scatter has been investigated as a viable operational mode of RF propagation:  https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA271604.

That paper describes the importance of "coherent scatter" which diminshes as the meteor tail spreads out and the sweet-spot value range for "electron density" to support a viable MB radio link.

A tantalizing quote from this paper:  "The Antarctic test of MB terminals demonstrated a persistent non-meteoric propagation mechanism, possibly sporadic E, which dominated link performance. Although this phenomena masked most, if not all, meteor trail-scatter events, it demonstrated nearly continuous VHF connectivity at a range of about 1400 km."

 

 

Edited by hamateur 1953
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Last year I think it was I corresponded with a fellow ham living in the arctic giving him kudos for an excellent article on ionosondes. In CQ magazine. He asserted the complete lack of an ionosphere at his latitude. Not particularly surprising to me although Id bet in summer months he probably sees some f2. Hence the idea of anything refractive in the antarctic would surprise many hams! 

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5 hours ago, Marcel de Bont said:

@KW2P I am thinking about moving this topic to the HAM radio forum. This topic seems perfectly fit for that forum and it would be nice to get some discussions over there as well and perhaps attract new HAM radio users to use that forum. Agreed?

Yes, sounds like a good idea to me!

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Well ok then @KW2P you have the floor.  Occurs at night when no ionization is present??   I will bite. Perhaps you intended to type “ should have been present”. I will refrain from putting words in your mouth, however, as that would be unconscionable. What say OM?  ( hamspeak for fellow old guy) 

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1 hour ago, hamateur 1953 said:

Well ok then @KW2P you have the floor.  Occurs at night when no ionization is present??   I will bite. Perhaps you intended to type “ should have been present”. I will refrain from putting words in your mouth, however, as that would be unconscionable. What say OM?  ( hamspeak for fellow old guy) 

I should have said "no source of ionization" is present. It's night, no UV or soft X-rays.  And yet, Es can crop up in the middle of the night. Which argues in favor of the meteorite particles.

That's not to say there's no effect from ionization during the day. Es is more common during the day than at night so maybe there is more than one mechanism in play at once.

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Yes Im in full agreement with ya on that indeed. Although personally I’ve only witnessed Auroral Es when the source was well known to me even fifty yrs ago.  

41 minutes ago, KW2P said:

I should have said "no source of ionization" is present. It's night, no UV or soft X-rays.  And yet, Es can crop up in the middle of the night. Which argues in favor of the meteorite particles.

That's not to say there's no effect from ionization during the day. Es is more common during the day than at night so maybe there is more than one mechanism in play at once.

 

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How about a four hour analog tv signal witnessed one sunny day in late june channel 2  from KDIX Dickinson ND? Of course analog TV ran higher power.  numerous other examples exist. We didn’t have analog 2 in seattle and were a bit surprised to find KDIX all of a sudden. 🤣

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4 hours ago, hamateur 1953 said:

How about a four hour analog tv signal witnessed one sunny day in late june channel 2  from KDIX Dickinson ND? Of course analog TV ran higher power.  numerous other examples exist. We didn’t have analog 2 in seattle and were a bit surprised to find KDIX all of a sudden. 🤣

Yes, these things happened on low-band VHF TV. People were puzzled. Under extreme Es conditions propagation up to the 3 meter band has occurred so FM broadcast signals have been picked up far outside their intended service area.

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On 3/24/2023 at 7:17 AM, KW2P said:

I should have said "no source of ionization" is present. It's night, no UV or soft X-rays.  And yet, Es can crop up in the middle of the night. Which argues in favor of the meteorite particles.

It should be said though that ionized particles can be long-living and transported from other parts of the planet.
https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/21/4219/2021/

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That paper was well worth the read for me anyway, because it dispelled a misconception I’d held for some time regarding the apparent coincidence of meteoric activity and sporadic E. Although as @KW2P noted many mechanisms may still be at play here.  

4 hours ago, helios said:

It should be said though that ionized particles can be long-living and transported from other parts of the planet.
https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/21/4219/2021/

 

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On 3/25/2023 at 4:26 AM, helios said:

It should be said though that ionized particles can be long-living and transported from other parts of the planet.
https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/21/4219/2021/

Great article. Finally got time to read it.

One thing that's clear is we shouldn't feel badly that it's taken 90 years to get close to an answer, and we still don't have it all. It's complicated.

As a ham radio guy I would someday like to have accurate forecasts of Es conditions, but that's still off in the future.

After reading the article I'm a bit puzzled about why the repeated reference to "metal ions".  Metals are conductive because the electrons in the outer shell are loosely bound and free to move. As a result, metals are easily ionized. But metals reflect radio waves regardless. It doesn't matter whether they're ionized or not. Why doesn't the article just say "metallic particles"?

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3 hours ago, KW2P said:

After reading the article I'm a bit puzzled about why the repeated reference to "metal ions".  Metals are conductive because the electrons in the outer shell are loosely bound and free to move. As a result, metals are easily ionized. But metals reflect radio waves regardless. It doesn't matter whether they're ionized or not. Why doesn't the article just say "metallic particles"?

I think radio propagation using the ionosphere requires ions and free electrons (ionized charged particles) for refraction.  I suspect neutral metallic particles could scatter radio waves, but probably lacks the regular arrangement and spacing of a plasma that interacts sympathetically with the frequency of a radio EM wave to refract them.  Smooth boundaries of a conductive material can reflect radio waves (including ocean salt waters below for long distance multiple hop skywave propagation).

Another posit on the cause of Es can be found here.  It's another twist on the wind shear explanation, and sounds similar to how a tornado is formed.  I'm not quoting the text because it's copyrighted, but search for "sporadic" in the following page.  https://www.britannica.com/science/ionosphere-and-magnetosphere/Ionospheric-variations

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22 hours ago, Drax Spacex said:

I think radio propagation using the ionosphere requires ions and free electrons (ionized charged particles) for refraction.  I suspect neutral metallic particles could scatter radio waves, but probably lacks the regular arrangement and spacing of a plasma that interacts sympathetically with the frequency of a radio EM wave to refract them.  Smooth boundaries of a conductive material can reflect radio waves (including ocean salt waters below for long distance multiple hop skywave propagation).

Another posit on the cause of Es can be found here.  It's another twist on the wind shear explanation, and sounds similar to how a tornado is formed.  I'm not quoting the text because it's copyrighted, but search for "sporadic" in the following page.  https://www.britannica.com/science/ionosphere-and-magnetosphere/Ionospheric-variations

Thanks for posting. The whole article is a pretty good condensation of the whole ionosphere / radio propagation topic.  I was a bit surprised that the article frames the metal ion theory as fact when many still consider it an unproven hypothesis. Encyclopedia article authors sometimes do that. It is nevertheless a good article to read and a good intro to the whole field.

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1 hour ago, KW2P said:

Thanks for posting. The whole article is a pretty good condensation of the whole ionosphere / radio propagation topic.  I was a bit surprised that the article frames the metal ion theory as fact when many still consider it an unproven hypothesis. Encyclopedia article authors sometimes do that. It is nevertheless a good article to read and a good intro to the whole field.

Agreed.  It's often a challenge to sort out between what is fact and what is assertion; between what is theoretical and what has been empirically observed and confirmed.

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  • 11 months later...

On the subject of Sporadic E particularly at 50 mhz 6 metre band we have practically at our fingertips these days the ability to empirically test the effects of high level flaring on E layer ionisation at mid latitudes over this coming summer.  Since it appears that for the time being solar flux is unlikely to exceed 250 anytime soon opening up six for F2, instead I plan to see what I see in this regard over the next six months or so.  It may prove interesting.  73 Mike N7ORL 

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I check the 6m band SSB calling frequency 50.125MHz a few times a week, and have called CQ a few times, but haven't heard anything from my location in several months.  I see the Boulder MUF rise to just over 40MHz a few days ago, but yeah will need a large boost in SFI for sustained MUF above 50MHz, something I have not experienced.  In the meantime, the 10m band has been really good for both domestic and international contacts, a benefit during the years of solar maximum!

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