The strangest spring in my life

[goldminor]

I can verify personally that there are some fairly strong ties between solar phenomenon and mankind, and this year, just recently, I had an amazing example of just how tied I am into  changes in nature. For most of my life I get a natural high early in the year, a bit like a spring renewal. Typically this increase in mental energy would take place around March/April, late February would be early. Then over the last decade+ I have felt this phenomenon as early as late January. Then this year I experienced a completely different start to the year, one that was completely out of the ordinary, and over the last month I finally became aware of how the dots tied together. Here is how I was affected by the current ongoing changes.

This year January came and went, and my spring boost was nowhere too be seen. I have to say that I was also feeling a bit lousy. Then February rolled around and still no spring renewal. In the meantime back in January a warm weather pattern came in for several weeks. This then was followed by a cold pattern for 10 or more days. This pattern then repeated 3 more times into early April.  As a result of that all of the peaches fell off my peach trees. All fruit trees in a large area here in Northern California whether tended or wild also lost most of their fruit. My neighbor's garden is half the size it would normally be for this time of year. Something very unusual is taking place, and nature is proof for that.

So here comes the physiological connection with the sun part of the story. In early June I finally got my spring renewal. Never in my 72 years of life has that ever taken place that late in the year. And as I felt the clarity and strength  energize my mind and body it finally dawned on me that I had been affected just the same as all of the fruit trees had been affected  There was no spring bloom for me, and as I stated above I felt pretty lousy through most of the first half of the year. Lousy enough to wonder if I was about to enter a new infirmed stage of old age. Now after the renewal I feel vigorous and like I will live to be over 100 years of age. I am out walking a mile to the store every day in the heat of the day, and temps are now over 100 F. I can walk 2 to 4 miles at a pace of almost 5 mph with minimal exertion.

Never before had I ever seen such clear proof, for me, that I am so fully connected to changes in nature which appear now to be triggered by solar changes. My body was in the dumps just like all of the fruit trees until something changed around late May. This also makes me wonder if a gsm is in the future for us, as I have never seen such a spring before.

 

[Sam Warfel]

15 minutes ago, goldminor said:

This also makes me wonder if a gsm is in the future for us, as I have never seen such a spring before.

It’s not, this solar cycle will be stronger  to substantially stronger than the one preceding it. 

[goldminor]

@ Orneno ... we shall see. Something is very different. The only question is "Was this just a weather fluke, or will there be further seasonal disruptions which will disrupt crops". Russia is haviing a bad year  for wheat this year due to unseasonable wet/cold spells. Their grain will be inferior quality as a result. There are other areas in the NH which have experienced similar disruption this year. The Southern Hemisphere is having  a very strong cold winter. I see real change taking place around the planet.

Edited July 26, 2022 by goldminor

[Sam Warfel]

Yup, the climate is being disrupted due to climate change, but the sun is not related and there won’t be any grand solar minimums

[Bry]

I'm also not sure about any more grand solar minimums with solar activity picking up lately, (and I've only been looking since then), or how the next cycle will fare... however I do relate to goldminors comment on the strange weather events since our last solar minimum. I wanted to ask if perhaps the Tonga eruption might have influenced weather patterns globally to be cooler or cloudier since it erupted in January this year, and contribute to the "cooler spring" some countries may have experienced this year?

Other notable weather events during the last solar minimum I can remember was the November 26, 2019 bomb cyclone on the west coast with hurricane force winds and record setting wave heights for the U.S. (75ft), and barometer readings for california. 

https://abc7news.com/bomb-cyclone-record-setting-wave-75-foot-uc-san-diegos-scripps-institution-of-oceanography/5737926/

and of course the Auguest 2020 lightning complex from a remnant of a hurricane gone too far north, and some crazy dry wind events over 70-100+mph really shook things up in the winter. Just some standout examples of weather since the solar minimum that I can remember in this typically placid region. The tsunami from a volcanic eruption half a world away really took the cake in weirdness for me this year though.

I found this article reminding how life influences half of the minerals created on this planet and how our imprint today is to be expected in weather and beyond since we are living on the remains of our ancestors today as a substrate.. of course we are changing the climate if we are changing the composition of this layer of earth geologically is what I guess I'm saying. If life can change geology, than we will definitely be able to change the climate in simpler terms.

https://www.wired.com/story/life-helps-make-almost-half-of-all-minerals-on-earth/

Hope the sun is shining well enough for everyone this summer in the northern hemisphere, and a renewing winter in the south.

[Archmonoth]

23 hours ago, goldminor said:

Never before had I ever seen such clear proof, for me, that I am so fully connected to changes in nature which appear now to be triggered by solar changes. My body was in the dumps just like all of the fruit trees until something changed around late May. This also makes me wonder if a gsm is in the future for us, as I have never seen such a spring before.

 

You seem very in touch with nature and patterns of weather and seasons. I also plant and garden and interact with animals like bees (I have 4 hives) who are also very reactive and sensitive to patterns. Bees for example have honey flows, depending on which flowers bloom, and even have generations in the winter for enduring the lack of flowers and food. 

 

However, what you are experiencing is not solar changes, they are climate changes. The jet streams are changing from stable patterns to something called Rosby waves. Patterns are disrupted, heat waves are crazy this year all around the world. 

 

You may ask why I say it's not solar, or how would I know? Well for starters we can see the changes in the jet streams. Here is an article with a pretty good overview of changing jet streams. Changes in the jet stream are steering autumn rain away from southeast Australia (phys.org)

 

Much of the albedo effect is occurring from melt in Greenland and the artic regions, causing feedback loops, further altering the jet streams, weather patterns and seasons. Here is a wiki on what the Albedo is: Albedo - Wikipedia

 

The Albedo and melt from Greenland/artic is an example of something called a feedback loop. In climate change talk, this is "climate sensitivity" which means feedback loops (heat) can increase as the system break down. Another example of this is tropical rainforests. These sink carbon, heat and contribute to the stability of the jet streams. Deforestation has caused the rainforest to cause increased carbon release rather than sinking carbon.

 

The Sun didn't cut those trees down, humans did. 

 

Carbon is a metric, an indicator, and climate change talk has recent refined much of this to something called Radiative Forcing, which is the heating caused by greenhouse gases from human activity. This includes methane, carbon, nitrous oxide and a few others. If you have the time, here is a wonderful YouTube by Peter Carter on what Radiative Forcing is: 

 

 

 

The recent changes are not from the Sun, but from human activity and industry, pollution, and combustion of oil. 

 

Here is a graph comparing changes in solar cycles with changes in temp: (Source: Global Warming Update (co2.earth)

 

 

18 hours ago, Bry said:

 I wanted to ask if perhaps the Tonga eruption might have influenced weather patterns globally to be cooler or cloudier since it erupted in January this year, and contribute to the "cooler spring" some countries may have experienced this year?

The Tonga eruption was large, however, the effects on global weather, even from a volcano takes years to change the system. (Perhaps locally like from blocking the Sun)

 

18 hours ago, Bry said:

Hope the sun is shining well enough for everyone this summer in the northern hemisphere, and a renewing winter in the south.

Perhaps for some, but damage/death from record heatwaves in Europe, USA, China, crops, etc., can't be undone by a cold winter. 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Archmonoth

[Bry]

1 hour ago, Archmonoth said:

The jet streams are changing from stable patterns to something called Rosby waves. Patterns are disrupted, heat waves are crazy this year all around the world. 

 

You may ask why I say it's not solar, or how would I know? Well for starters we can see the changes in the jet streams. Here is an article with a pretty good overview of changing jet streams. Changes in the jet stream are steering autumn rain away from southeast Australia (phys.org)

I guess I was under the impression that our jet streams location and intensity is dictated by our earths tilt and sun angle that time of year from its orbit location, as it spins counter clockwise.

I thought this is similar to the spinning of the sun causing Rossby waves on the suns surface which determine sunspots formation, holes, or magnetic cells which are its own “jet streams” if you will. I do think perturbations in activity on the sun due to changes in the suns spin or orbit (barycenter) might influence our more extreme weather when the jet stream meanders into different latitudes than normal with just tilt and wobble being considered.

  I’ve also realized lately that our solar system is has a 60 degrees tilt from our galactic plane ( based off Milky Way angle in sky) and wobbles! thus even our sun might experience “seasons” as earth does largely due to tilt as it orbits the galaxy I’d imagine. I think we still have a lot more to learn with regards to how similar the process is for our two spinning spheres to create its own “weather activity” and how they influence each other’s spin and thus activity.

  Here is a post from a climate scientist I respect (who says it better than I can) about how complex the issue is with many factors including ourselves involved. I’m definitely prone to wanting to understand one influence at a time without compiling them all!

Seems like Tonga might have had an effect on weather this year if crops are failing in cold places due to lack of sun. I heard it’s blast made it into space so I can’t imagine it wouldn’t have an effect. Along with Tonga I was realizing that perhaps the enhanced war activity and detonations in Ukraine might be having an effect on that continent with temperature swings and other anomalies. So much to think about.

 

This seems to be a very hot topic being discussed on many fronts lately. Always interested to learn more about how our sun influences our “normal” weather vs when it’s more active.

[Archmonoth]

1 hour ago, Bry said:

I guess I was under the impression that our jet streams location and intensity is dictated by our earths tilt and sun angle that time of year from its orbit location, as it spins counter clockwise.

They are disrupted by increases of heat, and the artic/Greenland melt (cold), this disrupts these streams, causing warmer air to reach colder regions, adding to the feedback loop.  

 

1 hour ago, Bry said:

I thought this is similar to the spinning of the sun causing Rossby waves on the suns surface which determine sunspots formation, holes, or magnetic cells which are its own “jet streams” if you will. I do think perturbations in activity on the sun due to changes in the suns spin or orbit (barycenter) might influence our more extreme weather when the jet stream meanders into different latitudes than normal with just tilt and wobble being considered.

Our extreme weather is caused by chemical insulation from greenhouse gases. This is measurable, and they have been measuring this for decades. Greenhouse gases' effect on climate - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

"The mean rates of increase in atmospheric concentrations over the past century are, with very high confidence, unprecedented in the last 22,000 years."

 

The Sun isn't adding these greenhouse gases, human activity is. 

1 hour ago, Bry said:

  I’ve also realized lately that our solar system is has a 60 degrees tilt from our galactic plane ( based off Milky Way angle in sky) and wobbles! thus even our sun might experience “seasons” as earth does largely due to tilt as it orbits the galaxy I’d imagine. I think we still have a lot more to learn with regards to how similar the process is for our two spinning spheres to create its own “weather activity” and how they influence each other’s spin and thus activity.

This is not why climate change and heat waves are happening. We know why, they have been measuring and testing for decades, it's not speculation. The sky and sea are not endless, human consumption/waste adds up, it is simple, testable, chemistry.

 

What source or study would convince you that human made activity is causing the changes in climate, or changes in the jet streams? 

 

It's at the point where devil's advocacy becomes apologetic for deforestation, pollution, and unsustainable growth. You have a sharp mind, you are an intelligent person, what does your investigation of climate change tell you? 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Archmonoth

[Bry]

I totally agree climate change is caused by anthropogenic influences and is affecting earths weather since maybe agricultural times. We’re burning ancient life so we know our activities will someday be in the rock record, and atmosphere as well. Sorry that’s in confusion, not my intent.

 I just think there are many factors that play into our normal weather changes that include changes in sun activity that we were not aware of. Not that the normal sun activity entirely explains our end of influence as well.

To understand changes in weather, I felt like I must understand how our normal weather takes place first... and that took a while.  Human pollution is not why we have seasons, our tilt is. Our tilt determines whether or not the jet stream is in one hemisphere or the other, not necessarily why it gets disrupted like anarchmonoth shows with the cool polar vortex wobble illustration... I do think the sun already influences our normal weather before anthropogenic emissions (tilt, orbit eccentricity, wobble, and normal changes in solar activity).  The hard task is to stack all this together and know how to weight their effect against each other I imagine... or to isolate humans effect on weather alone ultimately..Which I am not capable of programming at my ability but I see the need is there!

Here is a job opening to study these current heat waves happening right now and in the future...to demonstrate just how little we understand even right now. I can’t imagine not including ongoing space weather in their model!

 

[Christopher S.]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:04 PM, goldminor said:

Typically this increase in mental energy

You lost me already.

 

On 7/25/2022 at 5:04 PM, goldminor said:

I can verify personally that there are some fairly strong ties between solar phenomenon and mankind, and this year, just recently, I had an amazing example of just how tied I am into  changes in nature. For most of my life I get a natural high early in the year, a bit like a spring renewal. Typically this increase in mental energy would take place around March/April, late February would be early. Then over the last decade+ I have felt this phenomenon as early as late January. Then this year I experienced a completely different start to the year, one that was completely out of the ordinary, and over the last month I finally became aware of how the dots tied together. Here is how I was affected by the current ongoing changes.

This year January came and went, and my spring boost was nowhere too be seen. I have to say that I was also feeling a bit lousy. Then February rolled around and still no spring renewal. In the meantime back in January a warm weather pattern came in for several weeks. This then was followed by a cold pattern for 10 or more days. This pattern then repeated 3 more times into early April.  As a result of that all of the peaches fell off my peach trees. All fruit trees in a large area here in Northern California whether tended or wild also lost most of their fruit. My neighbor's garden is half the size it would normally be for this time of year. Something very unusual is taking place, and nature is proof for that.

So here comes the physiological connection with the sun part of the story. In early June I finally got my spring renewal. Never in my 72 years of life has that ever taken place that late in the year. And as I felt the clarity and strength  energize my mind and body it finally dawned on me that I had been affected just the same as all of the fruit trees had been affected  There was no spring bloom for me, and as I stated above I felt pretty lousy through most of the first half of the year. Lousy enough to wonder if I was about to enter a new infirmed stage of old age. Now after the renewal I feel vigorous and like I will live to be over 100 years of age. I am out walking a mile to the store every day in the heat of the day, and temps are now over 100 F. I can walk 2 to 4 miles at a pace of almost 5 mph with minimal exertion.

Never before had I ever seen such clear proof, for me, that I am so fully connected to changes in nature which appear now to be triggered by solar changes. My body was in the dumps just like all of the fruit trees until something changed around late May. This also makes me wonder if a gsm is in the future for us, as I have never seen such a spring before.

 

It's amazing how much you invest in your own observations, and furthermore believe yourself.

[Bry]

6 hours ago, Christopher S. said:

You lost me already.

 

Regarding increases in mental energy and sunlight:

I learned recently that humans lost their fur in exchange for melanin to support the extra metabolic energy required by our more active brains. Melanin apparently absorbs infrared wavelengths best (sunrise and sunsets) and produces oxygen and cellular metabolites. I’ll try to find my links again, but this is in the Heliobiology topic as well.

Maybe with weather changes altering the amount of infrared available during fall and spring (with cloud cover, Tonga eruption, or other pollution influences, between my indoors more due to covid) blocks this essential wavelength or at least alters it’s availability to our mental metabolism.

heres are some links:

This one regarding melanin, human brain evolution and metabolic requirements met by infrared light.

https://www.printfriendly.com/p/g/PGLRRL

This one regarding melanins oxygen evolution and other metabolites.

https://medcraveonline.com/MOJCSR/the-unsuspected-capacity-of-melanin-to-transform-light-energy-into-chemical-energy-and-the-surprising-anoxia-tolerance-of-chrysemys-pictanbsp.html

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15306692

 

7 hours ago, Christopher S. said:

It's amazing how much you invest in your own observations, and furthermore believe yourself

Its cool how we might figure this deficit in energy naturally with enough experience on earth. It’s taken me this long to learn humans are essentially supposed to split water molecules in the mornings and evenings. That would be a noticable amount of lost energy over time!

[Archmonoth]

5 hours ago, Bry said:

Maybe with weather changes altering the amount of infrared available during fall and spring (with cloud cover, Tonga eruption, or other pollution influences, between my indoors more due to covid) blocks this essential wavelength or at least alters it’s availability to our mental metabolism.

 

The Tonga is suspected to have extended the La Nina (La Niña - Wikipedia) by another year. The terror is that when La Nina is done, El Nino will be much hotter, with 2023 predicted to be a record year. July 2022 La Niña update: comic timing | NOAA Climate.gov

 

Sure, sunlight is part of human chemistry, just like vitamin D, our sleep/wake cycles all sorts of stuff, but we do have an upper limit to heat. On our way to our limits, it's all the other animals which will die first. Cows and chickens for example can't handle 126 F weather, or have access to AC. The meat industry is also a huge water consumer, which grows very expensive in more ways than money. 

[goldminor]

6 hours ago, Bry said:

....

This effect that I an descrbing comes on as if a switch had been thrown. It is that obvious to me. The strength of the "sping boost" can vary from mild to intense. It generally lasts for several months, and then it fades away.

I have noted a number of posts around here where people have claimed that they are feeling some effect from natural sources. I have always read those with a good deal of scepticism, and it never dawned on me that my "spring boost" was driven so directly by "??????". Until this year with its strange start of oscillating weather patterns that dumped most of the fruit off of trees, and then set everone's garden back around 6 weeks behind. There is a site "Electroverse" who writes about unusual cold events around the globe, and he has had a ton of examples this year to write about. His site has discussed multiple issues around the NH of crop losses due to unseasonable conditions. What I have experienced here in NorCal has also been felt around the NH. Russia, for example, is having a terrible year with its wheat crop. Most of the harvest will be inferior due to wet/cold conditions. The protein content is reduced as a result. That is a pretty big deal given the ongoing war in the Ukraine.

Edited July 27, 2022 by goldminor

[David Silver]

Well hello @goldminor ! Please visit the Heliobiology thread. : )

[Archmonoth]

On 7/27/2022 at 9:00 AM, Bry said:

Maybe with weather changes altering the amount of infrared available during fall and spring (with cloud cover, Tonga eruption, or other pollution influences, between my indoors more due to covid) blocks this essential wavelength or at least alters it’s availability to our mental metabolism.

 

More on the Tonga eruption: It might be warming rather than cooling. Massive undersea eruption filled atmosphere with water | Science | AAAS

 

Covid has provided positive effects on oil/energy consumption. There was less pollution and such during COVID lockdowns, but now has returned to pre-covid levels of consumption/energy. Here is an article showing the dip: Covid-19 and Climate Change | Climate Central

[goldminor]

On 7/25/2022 at 6:27 PM, Orneno said:

Yup, the climate is being disrupted due to climate change, but the sun is not related and there won’t be any grand solar minimums

You say that with such certainty.

[Bry]

Trust your melanin!

Something is definitely changing. There are clouds from a hurricane named frank overhead in central California today.

I thought this might be relevant to this topic:

The Earth is apparently moving slightly faster due to us warming the planet and redistributing the melted glaciers water in mountainous regions near the equator to our rising oceans according to this:

https://nypost.com/2022/08/01/scientists-baffled-as-earth-spins-faster-than-usual/amp/

here is a deglaciated region in the alps, and more heatwaves predicted this week.

Might explain why climate scientists say the hydrologic cycle is speeding up in a warmer world if the earth is literally spinning faster!

Edited August 2, 2022 by Bry
The earth is spinning faster!

[Archmonoth]

3 hours ago, Bry said:

Trust your melanin!

Something is definitely changing. There are clouds from a hurricane named frank overhead in central California today.

I thought this might be relevant to this topic:

The Earth is apparently moving slightly faster due to us warming the planet and redistributing the melted glaciers in mountainous regions near the equator... according to this:

 

I would be cautious of giving this idea too much weight. There have always been some changes in the exact rotational period of Earth's rotation. Earth's rotation - Wikipedia

 

"Analysis of historical astronomical records shows a slowing trend; the length of a day, increased about 2.3 milliseconds per century since the 8th century BCE. Scientists reported that in 2020 Earth has started spinning faster, after consistently spinning slower than 86,400 seconds per day in the decades before. Because of that, engineers worldwide are discussing a 'negative leap second' and other possible timekeeping measures." 

 

Perhaps the additional energy from human activity is speeding up our rotation, since there is more energy in the system, but I doubt the source of climate changes are from a 1.59 millisecond rotational change.

 

Also, glaciers melting has been going on for a while, not corelative with a 1–2-year (recent) change in rotational speed. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Archmonoth

[Bry]

3 hours ago, Archmonoth said:

Perhaps the additional energy from human activity is speeding up our rotation, since there is more energy in the system, but I doubt the source of climate changes are from a 1.59 millisecond rotational change.

 

Sorry, I’m not saying the source of climate change is from our increased rotation speed, but from human induced global warming!

7 hours ago, Bry said:

The Earth is apparently moving slightly faster due to us warming the planet and redistributing the melted glaciers water in mountainous regions near the equator to our rising oceans according to this:

Let me know what I wrote that made you think otherwise!

There is no denying humans have changed our climate, the question is exactly how are we doing it and what are the continual effects that develop.

I think the heat sinks or reservoirs on earth take a while to accumulate heat before they are filled and now the heat is in the atmosphere, increasing entropy and kinetic energy of water vapor, creating a feedback loop like our lack of albedo from the lack of glaciers becoming a heat sink. I have noticed the lack of permanent summer glaciers even here at Saharan latitudes as well in the sierras have made crossing mountain passes easier!

  Another thing noticed by experts recently, is with the intense wildfires scorching forests, there is less shade to protect snow from melting at lower latitudes, enhancing the lack of albedo and spring flooding water redistribution events. I think we have reached the tipping point in realizing how permanent lower latitude glaciers used to stabilize our planets summers.

So yes, I agree with you, the earths recent increase in rotational speed is more from the latent effect of earths heat sinks at capacity from accumulated human emission activities.

I attended a biogeochemical cycles grad class over a decade ago that went over the water cycle speeding up and it’s implications to our fluid dynamics and reservoirs and ultimately as a function of earths rotational speed.

Since water vapor is the number one “green house gas” we emit that can trap heat, and climate change just basically means a faster water cycle, it does make sense that we are now experiencing an increase in speed on our earth rotation is all I’m saying. 

I will say that there is some hope the planet has its own regulatory process. the  professor in that department seemed not too worried for our climate because they seemed to know that heat and water on a certain rocks traps those gases, regulating this climate runaway effect effectively for the last 5 rotations around the galaxy.

A warmer climates makes for faster water cycle  that will enhance rain weathering on equatorial subduction zones and sequester water, co2 and other gases into the rock reservoirs or sinks below. This sequestering of carbon dioxide and water cools the planet and allows ice caps to form at the poles.

I am noticing it seems like this pulse happens every galactic year or so (sun orbits around the galaxy center every ~230million years.) Exactly one orbit ago, mammals evolved fur, wonder what was happening then...

“Animation showing suture zones developing as tectonic plates evolved over the last 540 million years. MIT researchers found sutures in the tropical rain belt, shown in green, were associated with Earth's major ice ages. Credit: Swanson-Hysell research group” 

From: https://news.mit.edu/2019/tectonics-tropics-trigger-ice-ages-0314

The question now is: 

is human activity producing enough heat and emissions to overpower the earths regulatory system of raining on subduction zones to maintain ice caps at the poles. Is that why earth is spinning faster if equatorial glaciers melt first before ice caps? And rain can melt snow at lower latitudes.

Always down to discuss climate vs weather without any aurora sighting potential down here!

I’ll admit, after yesterdays much needed and unexpected downpour in droughtland Im pretty stoked to have hurricane remnants in the summer if it’s gonna bring rain in the summer and no lightning.

 

 

 

[Archmonoth]

20 hours ago, Bry said:

I think the heat sinks or reservoirs on earth take a while to accumulate heat before they are filled and now the heat is in the atmosphere, increasing entropy and kinetic energy of water vapor, creating a feedback loop like our lack of albedo from the lack of glaciers becoming a heat sink. I have noticed the lack of permanent summer glaciers even here at Saharan latitudes as well in the sierras have made crossing mountain passes easier!

The feedback loops are pretty crazy, I agree! 

20 hours ago, Bry said:

I attended a biogeochemical cycles grad class over a decade ago that went over the water cycle speeding up and it’s implications to our fluid dynamics and reservoirs and ultimately as a function of earths rotational speed.

Thats cool, I am not familiar with the science, but I am interested. How does the energy get transformed into rotational speed?

20 hours ago, Bry said:

Since water vapor is the number one “green house gas” we emit that can trap heat, and climate change just basically means a faster water cycle, it does make sense that we are now experiencing an increase in speed on our earth rotation is all I’m saying. 

I am a little fuzzy how the mechanism works, perhaps you could explain it a bit more?

20 hours ago, Bry said:

I will say that there is some hope the planet has its own regulatory process. the  professor in that department seemed not too worried for our climate because they seemed to know that heat and water on a certain rocks traps those gases, regulating this climate runaway effect effectively for the last 5 rotations around the galaxy.

I don't understand the connection between the galaxy location and climate change, when human activity is a known direct cause. 

20 hours ago, Bry said:

A warmer climates makes for faster water cycle  that will enhance rain weathering on equatorial subduction zones and sequester water, co2 and other gases into the rock reservoirs or sinks below. This sequestering of carbon dioxide and water cools the planet and allows ice caps to form at the poles.

Again, I am missing something on how the planet spins faster from this effect. 

20 hours ago, Bry said:

is human activity producing enough heat and emissions to overpower the earths regulatory system of raining on subduction zones to maintain ice caps at the poles. Is that why earth is spinning faster if equatorial glaciers melt first before ice caps? And rain can melt snow at lower latitudes. 

I would say yes to the overpowering the regulatory systems, but I am not sure about the increase in speed being connected to climate in any way. 

20 hours ago, Bry said:

Always down to discuss climate vs weather without any aurora sighting potential down here!

I’ll admit, after yesterdays much needed and unexpected downpour in droughtland Im pretty stoked to have hurricane remnants in the summer if it’s gonna bring rain in the summer and no lightning.

 

So before 2020 the Earth was slowing down, even though climate change was heating the planet up. I don't understand enough of the mechanisms you are describing to resolve this lack of correlation. Wouldn't the rotation speed increase during 1950-2019, since the climate was warming, rather than slowing down? 

[Bry]

9 hours ago, Archmonoth said:

So before 2020 the Earth was slowing down, even though climate change was heating the planet up. I don't understand enough of the mechanisms you are describing to resolve this lack of correlation. Wouldn't the rotation speed increase during 1950-2019, since the climate was warming, rather than slowing down? 

Good point, that is a great question! Why was the earth slowing down before 2020 and now speeding up? And why did that class (a decade before earths rotation actually sped up) mention the speedup of the water cycle being related to the spin of the earth? Not sure I can fully explain it if the experts measuring earths speed can't either but I'll certainly try!

There are more things to consider than I can probably list feel free to add: Water sinks and sources, Milankovitch cycles (obliquity, orbital eccentricity, precession, axial precession), earths interior dynamics (mantle plumes, subduction conveyor belts and geomagnetic (regarding how fast the core is spinning and iron and nickel migrate to and from it), and changes in how the earth surface rebounds from these changes geologically and chemically within.

Mostly I remember regarding this is that we are supposed to be headed towards an ice age, but humans are reversing this trend dramatically with our emissions... especially water vapor as it traps heat, creating a positive feedback loop, which creates more water vapor.

Good link about the Tonga eruption, its causing waves even amongst the experts and much guffawing! Makes sense though if water vapor is the greenhouse gas with the highest heat capacity, causing more heating from the water vapor it ejected into our atmosphere. I can't help but think Tonga, Hawaii and now Iceland's recent eruption is a sign our earths tectonics are speeding up with all these extreme weathering events dissolving the rocks at the equator and enhancing subduction and locking up more water and carbon dioxide.. but apparently volcanoes can eject a good amount out as well!

 Mostly from later geography and atmospheric classes learning how earths spin ultimately determines the "pulse" of our water cycle by enhancing deflection speeds (coriolis) of our high and low pressure systems which are influenced by our unequally distributed land masses and stationary air masses from equatorial uplift. If earth sped up 17 times its current speed we would be weightless or fling off the earth so we can't go too fast!

We are supposed to be headed towards an ice age due to our earth tilt (obliquity) angle now in its decreasing phase. When the earth is less tilted, the seasons are milder due to the tropic region (or area on earth where the sun hits directly) taking up less area. I would assume it would speed up as the poles lock up the water at the poles away from the equator.. however, the ice caps also keep the water mass away from the earths center of gravity, potentially slowing it down, depending on where the ice caps are located (Greenland, vs tibetan plateau). What "sink" water is stored in seems to be the important part for effecting center of gravity on earths rotation speed. Atmospheric vapor, ocean, glaciers, groundwater, subduction (incorporated chemically into rocks)

So it seems like climate change has perhaps augmented this decrease in earth tilt (obliquity = <23.5degrees) by migrating our north pole axis eastward recently. By melting ice caps at the poles and more mid-latitude glaciers into the ocean where the bulge of water at the equator should slow the earth down...  after the glaciers and icecaps melt, there is glacial rebound or rocks uplifting from the lack of ice mass on top of them like our granite exfoliation domes expanding upward in the Sierra Nevada like marshmallows (think Half Dome at Yosemite). This redistributes the mass and reverses the expected "sea-level rise" expected from melting ice, potentially increasing earths speed from lack of water displacement from submerged continents. That apparently has been changing the earths north pole axis on which earth rotates, not just geomagnetic, and having a wandering north pole means we have changed our tilt axis away from its decreasing phase. Which increases our total insolation area yet again, making our weather more intense potentially.

I remember from way back then, the teacher mentioning that "humans role in the environment was to essentially unlock all the carbon in the earth and unleash it into the atmosphere" and thought how that might slow our rotation down from the drag (not to mention all those satellites, space junk). But maybe we are just helping the current process of Earth losing mass by releasing hydrocarbons, minerals, and water from underground and into the atmosphere where it can escape and essentially speed our rotation if we lose enough mass, and volume doesn't grow..  however, as the earth continuously fractions out lighter and lighter types of magma (more silica than Fe and Mg) spewed up on the surface to make marshmallow like 3D continental rocks that also take up more volume and might slow us down as well over time.

Tectonic activity (volcanoes, earthquakes) is also a sign of the earth speeding up its rotation from heat being distributed through our currents in the ocean to subduction zones where they become part of the water sink in our mantle holding three oceans worth of water! When our mantle interacts with water, a exothermic reaction takes place, warming the surrounding around 250 degrees F as well, further enhancing heat production with water molecules getting organized into linear chains, and creating hydrocarbons which help the plates slip past each other. This layer in our mantle containing the most water (bridgemandite, perovskite, postporovskite, etc) is also superconductive (especially perovskites, used in our most "theoretically efficient solar panels") and is why earth has a magnetic field is generated besides our spinning core, and life itself on this planet. Not so sure if a rock needing mantle pressures and temperatures is efficient to make at all for solar panels.

I'm a little fuzzier on deep geophysics of our core or the large blobs (LLSVP's in our lower mantle from the planet Theia hitting us and becomes a subducted tectonic plate graveyard) influencing our rotational speed. But I do know that the rate of subduction pulls the slabs downward and sets the pulse of our planets interior dynamics.

With all these factors to consider, I can see why the engineers who calculated earths rotation had a hard time explaining why it was speeding up so suddenly. All I can guess at this point is that humans are having a much larger impact than ever could be imagined possible... reversing our earths tilt cycle (obliquity) potentially!

I'm sure the answer to your question needs a supercomputer to consider all these factors and a longer essay than you all want to read. My computer nearly crashed from all the tabs opened for this!

Thanks goldminor for bothering to share your experience with changes in climate this year, I hope this is somewhat relevant to your topic still!

I am honestly relieved to blame how fast time flies on our rotation, even if its just one second.

 

 

 

 

[Archmonoth]

23 hours ago, Bry said:

Not sure I can fully explain it if the experts measuring earths speed can't either but I'll certainly try!

Thanks for your attempt and effort in the explanation. I am not an expert either, so I appreciate this exploration and speculation with you. 

 

23 hours ago, Bry said:

 Mostly from later geography and atmospheric classes learning how earths spin ultimately determines the "pulse" of our water cycle by enhancing deflection speeds (coriolis) of our high and low pressure systems which are influenced by our unequally distributed land masses and stationary air masses from equatorial uplift. If earth sped up 17 times its current speed we would be weightless or fling off the earth so we can't go too fast!

This makes sense. 

23 hours ago, Bry said:

We are supposed to be headed towards an ice age due to our earth tilt (obliquity) angle now in its decreasing phase. When the earth is less tilted, the seasons are milder due to the tropic region (or area on earth where the sun hits directly) taking up less area. I would assume it would speed up as the poles lock up the water at the poles away from the equator.. however, the ice caps also keep the water mass away from the earths center of gravity, potentially slowing it down, depending on where the ice caps are located (Greenland, vs tibetan plateau). What "sink" water is stored in seems to be the important part for effecting center of gravity on earths rotation speed. Atmospheric vapor, ocean, glaciers, groundwater, subduction (incorporated chemically into rocks)

So it seems like climate change has perhaps augmented this decrease in earth tilt (obliquity = <23.5degrees) by migrating our north pole axis eastward recently. By melting ice caps at the poles and more mid-latitude glaciers into the ocean where the bulge of water at the equator should slow the earth down...  after the glaciers and icecaps melt, there is glacial rebound or rocks uplifting from the lack of ice mass on top of them like our granite exfoliation domes expanding upward in the Sierra Nevada like marshmallows (think Half Dome at Yosemite). This redistributes the mass and reverses the expected "sea-level rise" expected from melting ice, potentially increasing earths speed from lack of water displacement from submerged continents. That apparently has been changing the earths north pole axis on which earth rotates, not just geomagnetic, and having a wandering north pole means we have changed our tilt axis away from its decreasing phase. Which increases our total insolation area yet again, making our weather more intense potentially. 

These paragraphs made sense too, thank you. 

 

23 hours ago, Bry said:

I remember from way back then, the teacher mentioning that "humans role in the environment was to essentially unlock all the carbon in the earth and unleash it into the atmosphere" and thought how that might slow our rotation down from the drag (not to mention all those satellites, space junk). But maybe we are just helping the current process of Earth losing mass by releasing hydrocarbons, minerals, and water from underground and into the atmosphere where it can escape and essentially speed our rotation if we lose enough mass, and volume doesn't grow..  however, as the earth continuously fractions out lighter and lighter types of magma (more silica than Fe and Mg) spewed up on the surface to make marshmallow like 3D continental rocks that also take up more volume and might slow us down as well over time.

From my understanding, energy and mass are equivalent, even chemical energy. So, releasing energy from chemical changes wouldn't change the Earth's total mass. 

For example: The Sun radiates about 3.8 million exajoules to the Earth every year, and the kilogram equivalent is about 11 kilograms for each exajoule. Much of this energy is reflected, but assuming we are absorbing more energy and therefor increasing the Earth's mass, I think it would take more energy to increase rotation. 

Here is my source for mass/energy equivalence: Energy Converter | Convert Energy (unitsconverters.com)

 

However, if the Earth was "exercising" and transforming energy from chemical bonds (combustion) into kinetic motion, the spin rate would be an indicator of this energy amount. 

 

23 hours ago, Bry said:

I'm a little fuzzier on deep geophysics of our core or the large blobs (LLSVP's in our lower mantle from the planet Theia hitting us and becomes a subducted tectonic plate graveyard) influencing our rotational speed. But I do know that the rate of subduction pulls the slabs downward and sets the pulse of our planets interior dynamics.

Me too. 

23 hours ago, Bry said:

With all these factors to consider, I can see why the engineers who calculated earths rotation had a hard time explaining why it was speeding up so suddenly. All I can guess at this point is that humans are having a much larger impact than ever could be imagined possible... reversing our earths tilt cycle (obliquity) potentially!

I'm sure the answer to your question needs a supercomputer to consider all these factors and a longer essay than you all want to read. 

I'm not so sure it would require so much. the rotational speed can be measured by comparing changed to external celestial objects. (If the rotation speed is a reflection of the total energy change in the system via the Coriolis effects, water vapor system, ocean currents, etc.)

 

This is from the Earth's rotation wiki article, which does show a downward trend (faster rotation). 

 

I will think about this concept further, thanks again for the convo. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Archmonoth

[Bry]

  Sorry for the meandering talk on geology... missed my point it got so late. I obviously got rocks weighing on my mind lately and think they hold a lot of weight in this matter of where water is stored!.. lol. Especially influencing our rotation when closer to the center of mass vs farther was what I meant to say.  

Thanks for the better explanation on heat and kinetics. I’m also unsure how much mass we lose from cosmic radiation and solar winds stripping our atmosphere or gain from cosmic dust raining down on us, or what reaches earths escape velocity from our changing speeds vs what we gain or lose from insolation.

9 hours ago, Archmonoth said:

Much of this energy is reflected, but assuming we are absorbing more energy and therefor increasing the Earth's mass, I think it would take more energy to increase rotation

This is interesting. I’ll think on this one obliquely for awhile.

Ill need a bit longer to do a better job explaining anything or understanding myself how our quickening weather patterns, volcanic activity, reflect a change in rotation speed via our water cycle.

Geology is beckoning me to go hike up the deepest, oldest part of our mountains I can find and revel for a bit in their mysteries... like geothermal gradients losing heat continuously as the earths interior cools down ..

Thanks for asking great questions and convo as well. Sorry I think of everything as a rock. Sun and water included, maybe deep down we all are...

cheers to some sun activity!

 

 

 

 

[Bry]

On 8/2/2022 at 4:19 PM, Bry said:

I am noticing it seems like this pulse happens every galactic year or so (sun orbits around the galaxy center every ~230million years.) Exactly one orbit ago, mammals evolved fur, wonder what was happening then...

“Animation showing suture zones developing as tectonic plates evolved over the last 540 million years. MIT researchers found sutures in the tropical rain belt, shown in green, were associated with Earth's major ice ages. Credit: Swanson-Hysell research group” 

From: https://news.mit.edu/2019/tectonics-tropics-trigger-ice-ages-0314

 

Holly cow

Looks like someone read my posts about continent formation and orbital period of our solar system about the galaxy and published them this same month...I’m blown away.. where’s my credit???

Does this mean when someone else publishes my ideas I can move them to a “proven theories” forum?? Might need a “stolen or unreferenced” ideas forum soon!  

Be careful what ideas you post on this forum, they might just get proven and published!

 

https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/gsa/geology/article/doi/10.1130/G50513.1/616377/Did-transit-through-the-galactic-spiral-arms-seed

[Sam Warfel]

You know, in our 7.8 billion people world, occasionally two people will have the same idea at similar times