Proton flux and EPAM

[WildWill]

Howdy All Y’all,

Anyone been checking out the EPAM data (Proton flux in particular). Looks like it climbed steeply about 5 hours ago and has been slowly settling. The line is the > 10MeV which is the lowest energy measure on the chart. Can anyone shed some light on why the Proton Flux measures are delineated into >10, >100… etc.  I’m not quite following the complete meaning here.  I do understand what Proton Flux is.

Thank all y’all very kindly,

L & A

Edited July 10, 2022 by WildWill

[3gMike]

1 hour ago, WildWill said:

Howdy All Y’all,

Anyone been checking out the EPAM data (Proton flux in particular). Looks like it climbed steeply about 5 hours ago and has been slowly settling. The line is the > 10MeV which is the lowest energy measure on the chart. Can anyone shed some light on why the Proton Flux measures are delineated into >10, >100… etc.  I’m not quite following the complete meaning here.  I do understand what Proton Flux is.

Thank y’all very kindly,

L & A

SWPC issue alerts when 10MeV particles first exceed the threshold of 10 pfu (proton flux units), then for thresholds of 100, 1000, 10,000 and 100,000 pfu. Each of these thresholds relate to the Solar Radiation Storm Scale (S1 to S5).

The higher energy (more damaging) 100MeV particles trigger an alert when the flux crosses the 1 pfu threshold.

[Chuck Reichel]

What sort of event could have caused the sudden increase though?  There weren't any major flares other than the few small eruptions that have been common with these sunspots that you can see on the 94A° views. The whole center section of the sun sure looks like something interesting is about to happen though at least on the 193/211A° imagery. 

[Newbie]

3 hours ago, Chuck Reichel said:

What sort of event could have caused the sudden increase though?  There weren't any major flares other than the few small eruptions that have been common with these sunspots that you can see on the 94A° views. The whole center section of the sun sure looks like something interesting is about to happen though at least on the 193/211A° imagery. 

This from SWPC

Energetic Particles (S20, L=242) .24 hr Summary...

The greater than 10 MeV proton flux became enhanced after 09/1500 UTC following flare activity on the W limb, but did not exceed event thresholds with a maximum of 4.98 pfu observed at 09/1805 UTC. The greater than 2 MeV electron flux was normal to moderate. .Forecast... The greater than 10 MeV proton flux is likely to be weakly enhanced early on 09 Jul, but is not expected to exceed event thresholds. The greater than 2 MeV electron flux is expected to be normal and moderate over 10-12 Jul.

N.

[MinYoongi]

3 hours ago, Chuck Reichel said:

What sort of event could have caused the sudden increase though?  There weren't any major flares other than the few small eruptions that have been common with these sunspots that you can see on the 94A° views. The whole center section of the sun sure looks like something interesting is about to happen though at least on the 193/211A° imagery. 

Filament Eruption on the SW Limb causing a CME  

[Sam Warfel]

14 hours ago, MinYoongi said:

Filament Eruption on the SW Limb causing a CME

Yup, and the Parker Spiral effect guides them around to Earth. 

[Tia]

On 7/9/2022 at 11:28 PM, Chuck Reichel said:

What sort of event could have caused the sudden increase though?  There weren't any major flares other than the few small eruptions that have been common with these sunspots that you can see on the 94A° views. The whole center section of the sun sure looks like something interesting is about to happen though at least on the 193/211A° imagery. 

Could it be that there are eruptions which are masked by the brighter layers so are invisible by the spectrum differential? 

[WildWill]

On 7/10/2022 at 4:33 PM, Orneno said:

Yup, and the Parker Spiral effect guides them around to Earth. 

I've just been reading about the "Parker Effect" and trying to work through the math on it. If not for the Parker Spiral, we wouldn't have nearly as many, or as nice of shows at the poles. 
 

I found it very interesting that light (photons) has a uniform flux in every direction for the sun, but the solar winds is made of particles which all leave the sun in a direction perpendicular to the axis of rotation of the sun.  So, the solar winds blow basically in a spiral, in a disk, in the solar plane.

it's also interesting to note that (particle) flux is maximum at the equator and diminishes as you move toward the poles.  I wasn't expecting that until I realized that the velocity at the surface is r*w (radius * angular velocity) is measured from the axis of rotation, not from the center of gravity of the sun.  So, the vector r is parallel to the plane containing the equator (stellar plane). So the velocity at the surface due to rotation decreases as you move toward the poles, because both r and w are decreasing as you move away from the equator.  r cause of the curvature of the sun and w is decreasing due to the differential rotation rates as you move away from the equator! 
Trying to understand reconnection now. 
Amazing, both how much we know about the sun and just how much we don't know about the sun! lol. 
 

WnA

[Bry]

2 hours ago, WildWill said:

If not for the Parker Spiral, we wouldn't have nearly as many, or as nice of shows at the poles. 

I also find it interesting the association between the Parker spiral (or heliospheric current sheet) influencing the auroral band.

the sun has an oscillating tilt around ~+\-60degrees (relative to galaxy plane) and that might correspond to the same latitude on earth which sees the aurora most frequently.. and where filaments form on the sun apparently too!

Considering the earths 23.5deg tilt contributes to why auroras are not very visible on the North Pole for summer.. I figure the change of tilt between the earths orbital tilt relative to the suns contributed to this by oscillating around 7 degrees, so 14 total above and below the normal aurora belt (at 60degrees lat. would be in a range of 46-74 deg latitude

here’s a link some awesome person shared showing how the heliospheric current sheet tilt oscillates between solar max and min and might indicate where we are at in the cycle.. and what southernmost latitude on earth might be included in the aurora belt light show.

http://wso.stanford.edu/gifs/Tilts.gif

3 hours ago, WildWill said:

I found it very interesting that light (photons) has a uniform flux in every direction for the sun, but the solar winds is made of particles which all leave the sun in a direction perpendicular to the axis of rotation of the sun.  So, the solar winds blow basically in a spiral, in a disk, in the solar plane.

Yes it is interesting how mass from a filament or cme can get pulled into the Parker spiral effect to hit us later ...but you’re saying photons have no mass so a flare cannot get pulled in and hit us later??

 

3 hours ago, WildWill said:

it's also interesting to note that (particle) flux is maximum at the equator and diminishes as you move toward the poles.  I wasn't expecting that until I realized that the velocity at the surface is r*w (radius * angular velocity) is measured from the axis of rotation, not from the center of gravity of the sun.  So, the vector r is parallel to the plane containing the equator (stellar plane). So the velocity at the surface due to rotation decreases as you move toward the poles, because both r and w are decreasing as you move away from the equator.  r cause of the curvature of the sun and w is decreasing due to the differential rotation rates as you move away from the equator! 

I always thought this is what Patrick Geryl was saying was confusing about solar polar fields going faster than the equatorial (toroidal)on the sun. But the different rotating speeds from slower poles towards faster equator applies here on earth, and I see how a spinning ballerina analogy can confuse the two ideas whether she moves her arms out, up, or in from center of gravity and axis of rotation.

anuther way to put it:

A person at Earths equator spins faster than :

a person at earths poles along the axis of rotation

or inside of earth along the axis of rotation.

 

With regards to the bold, underlined part of your post:

I assume that since the suns axis of rotation or stellar plane is the reference for angular momentum instead of barycenter ...

...the tilt angle of the suns axial oscillations and earths orbital tilt oscillations should be enough to explain the change of influence of solar weather on earths auroral prone belt and somewhat latitude.

Protons and electrons:

I guess photons are not protons but it interesting how little the GOES proton flux activity has budged despite all the M flares lately. I was expecting more. GOES electron flux looks about normal, dropping as the electrons get swept aside by CIRs and CMEs. How would an increase of tilt in the Parker spiral (or heliospheric current sheet) change it’s influence as it sweeps over earth? I’ve noticed the diagonally oriented magnetic fields and regions on the solar dynamo images and thought it was due to this tilt change.

Which is either due the the solar system’s tilt orientation oscillating with respect to the galaxy and/or due to earths changing orbital inclination (which should be near its peak (~7deg)in the fall when earth can see more of the suns northern hemisphere).

Sorry again for the long post! Lots of sunburning questions!

 

 

 

 

[WildWill]

On 8/20/2022 at 6:27 PM, Bry said:

I also find it interesting the association between the Parker spiral (or heliospheric current sheet) influencing the auroral band.

the sun has an oscillating tilt around ~+\-60degrees (relative to galaxy plane) and that might correspond to the same latitude on earth which sees the aurora most frequently.. and where filaments form on the sun apparently too!

Considering the earths 23.5deg tilt contributes to why auroras are not very visible on the North Pole for summer.. I figure the change of tilt between the earths orbital tilt relative to the suns contributed to this by oscillating around 7 degrees, so 14 total above and below the normal aurora belt (at 60degrees lat. would be in a range of 46-74 deg latitude

here’s a link some awesome person shared showing how the heliospheric current sheet tilt oscillates between solar max and min and might indicate where we are at in the cycle.. and what southernmost latitude on earth might be included in the aurora belt light show.

http://wso.stanford.edu/gifs/Tilts.gif

Yes it is interesting how mass from a filament or cme can get pulled into the Parker spiral effect to hit us later ...but you’re saying photons have no mass so a flare cannot get pulled in and hit us later??

 

I always thought this is what Patrick Geryl was saying was confusing about solar polar fields going faster than the equatorial (toroidal)on the sun. But the different rotating speeds from slower poles towards faster equator applies here on earth, and I see how a spinning ballerina analogy can confuse the two ideas whether she moves her arms out, up, or in from center of gravity and axis of rotation.

anuther way to put it:

A person at Earths equator spins faster than :

a person at earths poles along the axis of rotation

or inside of earth along the axis of rotation.

 

With regards to the bold, underlined part of your post:

I assume that since the suns axis of rotation or stellar plane is the reference for angular momentum instead of barycenter ...

...the tilt angle of the suns axial oscillations and earths orbital tilt oscillations should be enough to explain the change of influence of solar weather on earths auroral prone belt and somewhat latitude.

Protons and electrons:

I guess photons are not protons but it interesting how little the GOES proton flux activity has budged despite all the M flares lately. I was expecting more. GOES electron flux looks about normal, dropping as the electrons get swept aside by CIRs and CMEs. How would an increase of tilt in the Parker spiral (or heliospheric current sheet) change it’s influence as it sweeps over earth? I’ve noticed the diagonally oriented magnetic fields and regions on the solar dynamo images and thought it was due to this tilt change.

Which is either due the the solar system’s tilt orientation oscillating with respect to the galaxy and/or due to earths changing orbital inclination (which should be near its peak (~7deg)in the fall when earth can see more of the suns northern hemisphere).

Sorry again for the long post! Lots of sunburning questions!

 

 

 

 

I believe a flare is an eruption along a magnetic shear,  it is composed of highly charged plasma. If the magnetic field strength and shear are strong enough, the flare "pulls" and throws a hunk of mass outward, a CME. 
 

The flare itself is composed of highly magnetized and ionized plasma, so those particles which are not pulled back into the sun, become part of the "solar wind". Flares have a lot of very highly ionized particles. High energy photons are given off by the flare, in all directions and propagate as photons do - along space-time "pathways". 
The flare itself is made of highly energetic charged particles and thus propagates outward along the Parker Spiral, or are pulled back into the sun.

WRT: differential velocities between the equator and poles:

There are two velocities we are interested in. The instantaneous velocity (through space) of an object on the surface and the angular velocity of the sphere.

The difference between the motion on earth verses the sun is because the angular velocity - rotational rate of the earth about its axis is constant from pole to pole, while the rotation rate (angular velocity) on the sun varies with both latitude and depth. 
That is the distinction. 

WnA