The new AR is here! (M-flare)

[Sam Warfel]

1 hour ago, FairyG said:

Is there any chance the CME played a role in the underwater volcano eruption? I would imagine the Earth's core could be bumped thus jostling a little lava out of the sippy cup spout? The clouds over the global radar yesterday were the wildest looking thing. Bizarre storm patterns and cloud formations. I apologize I really don't have expertise on any of this but it seems a curious coincidence.

Many have speculated on that topic, no true connections have been scientifically found.

For starters, there was no flare or CME impact when the volcano erupted, nor had their been a CME impact in some time. (unless I missed a small one)

[FairyG]

53 minutes ago, Solarflaretracker200 said:

I doubt it. 

What rays from the sun can penetrate the earths crust? Can any reach the Earth's core? Would they hit in a line or a wave pattern? 

 

[Sam Warfel]

3 minutes ago, FairyG said:

What rays from the sun can penetrate the earths crust? Can any reach the Earth's core? Would they hit in a line or a wave pattern? 

 

No rays can penetrate the crust, only neutrinos (tiny particles that are so small they sail clean through the earth without hitting anything)

[Solarflaretracker200]

47 minutes ago, FairyG said:

What rays from the sun can penetrate the earths crust? Can any reach the Earth's core? Would they hit in a line or a wave pattern?

If you mean anything harmful then no. But if you mean anything harmless then yes. 

[No pseudoscience]

 

On 1/15/2022 at 10:51 PM, FairyG said:

Is there any chance the CME played a role in the underwater volcano eruption? I would imagine the Earth's core could be bumped thus jostling a little lava out of the sippy cup spout? The clouds over the global radar yesterday were the wildest looking thing. Bizarre storm patterns and cloud formations. I apologize I really don't have expertise on any of this but it seems a curious coincidence.

First of all, I'm pretty sure that volcanoes don't work like that, in geology class isn't it taught that volcanic eruptions are caused by the explosive release of pressure, so a better analogy for a volcanic eruption would be a pressure bomb.

Secondly,even if volcanoes did work like that, how could a bunch of protons be able to cause an eruption if not even the strongest nuclear bomb ever made could cause a single volcanic eruption?

lastly, even if there wasn't a powerful magnetic field or an over 100 km high atmosphere in the way, how could a bunch of protons  move an approximately 597,200,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg planet in any significant way? 

But I'm not an expert so take that with a grain of salt  

(Edit)

(sorry that I didn't quote what I'm Editing my reply to reply to. I don't know how to quote in an edit.)

Neutrinos aren't non-reactive because of their size, instead it is because they only interact via gravity and the weak force, which means that they don't interact with light at all 

Edited January 23, 2022 by No pseudoscience
Avoiding clutter

[3gMike]

On 1/16/2022 at 3:51 AM, FairyG said:

Is there any chance the CME played a role in the underwater volcano eruption? I would imagine the Earth's core could be bumped thus jostling a little lava out of the sippy cup spout? The clouds over the global radar yesterday were the wildest looking thing. Bizarre storm patterns and cloud formations. I apologize I really don't have expertise on any of this but it seems a curious coincidence.

Absolutely none !

Scientists have been aware of pressure building up since 2015, and initial eruptions were observed in December 2021. For a better understanding see this from New Scientist https://www.newscientist.com/article/2304822-volcano-eruption-in-tonga-was-a-once-in-a-millennium-event/

 

[FairyG]

Thanks! I am still not convinced though that there is zero correlation.

It would be interesting to see what was happening with the sun around 2015 when the volcano started being active.

Nickel and Iron are both magnetic.

"As this roiling mass of metal moves around, it generates electrical currents hundreds of miles wide and flowing at thousands of miles per hour as Earth rotates. This mechanism, which is responsible for maintaining Earth’s magnetic field, is known as the geodynamo."

Why couldn't a strong enough magnetic pull (even just a very slight movement of the nickel and metal within the earth) push lava out of the areas that are ready to burst by jostling the metals inside the earth? Seems like the Aurora appear because there is a leak of space weather, but this is all very confusing and intriguing. I wish I had a better understanding to explain myself better.

So even if the particles from the sun don't hit the core,  can the CME produce a magnetic field of imapact (even if it doesn't actually hit Earth) that when Earth's magnetosphere is compromised-- lets the elements of the core perhaps be pulled by unseen, uncalculated space mmagnetism? Or maybe there is a temporary strong magnetic point(s) on Earth somehow created from the sun's emissions?

[Archmonoth]

21 hours ago, FairyG said:

Thanks! I am still not convinced though that there is zero correlation. 

Correlation doesn't necessitate causation. From what I understand systems can be removed and distant enough for no impact.

21 hours ago, FairyG said:

Nickel and Iron are both magnetic.

"As this roiling mass of metal moves around, it generates electrical currents hundreds of miles wide and flowing at thousands of miles per hour as Earth rotates. This mechanism, which is responsible for maintaining Earth’s magnetic field, is known as the geodynamo."

True, yet the magnetosphere extends from the Earth's surface and into space. We can see and measure when the magnetosphere is brushed from space weather (solar wind) in the form of the Auroa Borrelis. 

21 hours ago, FairyG said:

Why couldn't a strong enough magnetic pull (even just a very slight movement of the nickel and metal within the earth) push lava out of the areas that are ready to burst by jostling the metals inside the earth? Seems like the Aurora appear because there is a leak of space weather, but this is all very confusing and intriguing. I wish I had a better understanding to explain myself better.

 

Something which might help, which helped me understand the range of the Sun's effect, is the Inverse Square Law, which means the intensity of any source (like the Sun) diminishes exponentially as distant increases. Inverse-square law - Wikipedia

 

 

[3gMike]

21 hours ago, FairyG said:

I am still not convinced though that there is zero correlation.

Well you could try looking for some evidence to support your claim. As a starting point, we know that the number of CMEs in any year is closely related to the solar cycle, with maybe 1 CME / week during solar minimum and maybe 2 or 3 /day at solar maximum. You could try comparing this cycle with the number of volcanoes occurring each year, using a site like this  https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/volcanology/faq/how-many-eruptions-per-year.html#:~:text=On average%2C there are about,range of about 60-80.

[FairyG]

Lotsa things to research and learn on my part for sure. Thanks for humoring me and offering diving boards!

If there is a way to correlate the sun CME with why the Earth's core shifts by measuring magnetosphere changes, maybe I could figure it out with some more data like Mike mentions above. It just seems like someone would have figured it out by now of it was a real thing.

It just seems obvious though:

 

If the Earth's molten core makes the magnetosphere then conversely if the magnetosphere is "moved" the molten core should be affected.

 

Interestingly enough the poles shifted around 2015 and this article I found interesting yet can't quite make sense if it does truly indicate any correlation between the volcanic activity of hunga tonga and CME and Earth's molten metals.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00007-1

 

 

[3gMike]

19 hours ago, FairyG said:

Interestingly enough the poles shifted around 2015

Actually, the north pole has been shifting continuously since at least 1900, and the article suggests that this is probably due to changing balance in local magnetic fields, in the core, under Canada and Siberia.

[FairyG]

10 hours ago, 3gMike said:

Actually, the north pole has been shifting continuously since at least 1900, and the article suggests that this is probably due to changing balance in local magnetic fields, in the core, under Canada and Siberia.

Tried a few times to reply, forgive me if there is duplicate posts.

Based on that graph it looks like the pole shifted from 1900 to 2000 a similar distance as that from 2000 to 2020.

So maybe we hopped off planet and lived in the matrix for 50 years between 2000 and 2010!

Or perhaps Man's technology on Earth is a bigger factor changing the poles location? If there was only a way to know why the "changing balance of the local magnetic fields" in the core under Siberia and Canada are happening!

Perhaps those are the places where magnetic pinch points have been created and passing CME blows can exacerbate the molten core's flow or subtly influence it. Since all the tectonic plates influence each other, it would be tricky to really know for sure what moves lava to squirt, much like a popping pimple. Have to have it squeezed just right at the right depth with the right pressure and figure out what kind of magnetic pressure/exposure occurs and where with each individual solar blast. But is it possible at all for space weather to "squeeze" earth by utilizing energy particles emitted from the sun creating magnetic forces? If so what and where would need to be pinched to "pop the pimple" volcano? A quick reversal of a portion of molten metal due to extreme quick magnetic exposure I hypothesize.

Could these magnetic squeeze points-- created by sudden molten core changes due to CME axtivity- influence tectonic plate movement?

Much like water waves move the sand on the shoreline during tide shifts, can CME be slowly eroding and changing the "shoreline" of the magnetosphere? Could CME's be another player responsible for the occasional shifting of tectonic plates?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/geomagnetic-storm-march-13-1989-extreme-space-weather/

Then I read this article and (I wish the file size for sharing photos was higher because I can't even share a screenshot on this forum) but I feel some relief after reading this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/geomagnetic-storm-march-13-1989-extreme-space-weather/

Except the scientists above posed the pizoelectric effect as the reason plates shifted, where I hypothesize it has more to do with magnetic fields pulling the molten metal core causing the shifts.

It is always easier to disprove something than to prove something. Upon even further investigation https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fspas.2020.610278/full

I just give up. Auroras are pretty.

 

 

 

 

On 2/7/2022 at 4:22 PM, Archmonoth said:

Correlation doesn't necessitate causation. From what I understand systems can be removed and distant enough for no impact.

True, yet the magnetosphere extends from the Earth's surface and into space. We can see and measure when the magnetosphere is brushed from space weather (solar wind) in the form of the Auroa Borrelis. 

 

Something which might help, which helped me understand the range of the Sun's effect, is the Inverse Square Law, which means the intensity of any source (like the Sun) diminishes exponentially as distant increases. Inverse-square law - Wikipedia

 

 

"Solar sheaths were found to have a higher intermittency than solar wind ahead. It is an interesting question as to what extent the increased intermittency in CME sheath is related to intermittency of turbulent cascade, or is it rather the consequence of the frequent presence of coherent small-scale magnetic structures in the sheath, such as currents sheets, reconnection exhausts, and flux tube boundaries. These coherent magnetic structures could be “relics from the Sun” (e.g., Owens et al., 2011) or formed actively by the processes at the CME shock and leading edge as the CME propagates through the solar wind."

 I am still trying to wrap my head around the solar sheath concept, https://angeo.copernicus.org/articles/38/999/2020/

While the intensity of the sun's light and radiation may diminish exponentially following the inverse square law wouldn't what it "burps" out in a CME have to have its own formula? What happens as the movement of all those electrically charged particles behave in accordance to a myriad of constantly changing forces surrounding them as they traverse space? How could we ever truly calculate all the different forces in play because surely a magnet close to another magnet speeds up or slows down? If charged particles are in constant motion creating a magnetic field encountering another magnetic field and then "hit something magnetic" wouldn't that make the formula invalid?

Please don't hesitate to point out any misunderstandings I may have, I seriously am just learning all of this and it is challenging. I really appreciate all your input.

 

[Archmonoth]

On 2/8/2022 at 9:42 PM, FairyG said:

While the intensity of the sun's light and radiation may diminish exponentially following the inverse square law wouldn't what it "burps" out in a CME have to have its own formula? What happens as the movement of all those electrically charged particles behave in accordance to a myriad of constantly changing forces surrounding them as they traverse space? How could we ever truly calculate all the different forces in play because surely a magnet close to another magnet speeds up or slows down? If charged particles are in constant motion creating a magnetic field encountering another magnetic field and then "hit something magnetic" wouldn't that make the formula invalid?

Please don't hesitate to point out any misunderstandings I may have, I seriously am just learning all of this and it is challenging. I really appreciate all your input.

 

Magnetic poles and fields are not completely symmetrical, they change based on past disruptions and configurations. The CME will alter the magnetic poles of Earth, and overtime they will wobble around. Also, prediction of the future state of a magnetic pole depends on its past configuration, called hysteresis: Hysteresis - Wikipedia

 

Energy is conserved over time, and momentum is conserved over distance, these are the methods for with charged particles reduce their charge/force. CMEs spread out over space/distance from the sun, stirred like creamer in your coffee, then fall through the magnetic field, then encounter friction from the thermosphere and atmosphere, before finally arriving on the surface of the Earth. The time it takes, and the layers of other particles (Atmosphere) and magnetic fields all reduce the total energy of the CME particles. 

 

Maybe I'm missing something in your question? I am only an enthusiast, so perhaps my answer is not technical enough to answer completely.