New research finds a link between solar flares and earthquakes.

[Aeon]

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-67860-3

"After noticing the correlation between solar proton flux and strong earthquakes, the researchers went on to propose a possible explanation: a mechanism called the reverse piezoelectric effect.
Previous experiments have clearly shown that compressing quartz, a rock common in the Earth’s crust, can generate an electrical pulse through a process known as the piezoelectric effect. The researchers think that such small pulses could destabilize faults that are already close to rupturing, triggering earthquakes. In fact, signatures from electromagnetic events — such as earthquake lightning and radio waves — have been recorded occurring alongside earthquakes in the past. Some researchers think these events are caused by the earthquakes themselves. But several other studies have detected strong electromagnetic anomalies before large earthquakes, not after, so the exact nature of the relationship between earthquakes and electromagnetic events is still debated.
The new explanation, however, flips this electromagnetic cause-and-effect on its head, suggesting electromagnetic anomalies aren’t the result of earthquakes, but instead cause them. It goes like this: As positively charged protons from the Sun crash into Earth protective magnetic bubble, they create electromagnetic currents that propagate across the globe. Pulses created by these currents could then go on to deform quartz in Earth’s crust, ultimately triggering quakes."

https://astronomy.com/news/2020/07/powerful-eruptions-on-the-sun-might-trigger-earthquakes

 

[goldminor]

5 hours ago, Aeon said:

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-67860-3

"After noticing the correlation between solar proton flux and strong earthquakes, the researchers went on to propose a possible explanation: a mechanism called the reverse piezoelectric effect.
Previous experiments have clearly shown that compressing quartz, a rock common in the Earth’s crust, can generate an electrical pulse through a process known as the piezoelectric effect. The researchers think that such small pulses could destabilize faults that are already close to rupturing, triggering earthquakes. In fact, signatures from electromagnetic events — such as earthquake lightning and radio waves — have been recorded occurring alongside earthquakes in the past. Some researchers think these events are caused by the earthquakes themselves. But several other studies have detected strong electromagnetic anomalies before large earthquakes, not after, so the exact nature of the relationship between earthquakes and electromagnetic events is still debated.
The new explanation, however, flips this electromagnetic cause-and-effect on its head, suggesting electromagnetic anomalies aren’t the result of earthquakes, but instead cause them. It goes like this: As positively charged protons from the Sun crash into Earth protective magnetic bubble, they create electromagnetic currents that propagate across the globe. Pulses created by these currents could then go on to deform quartz in Earth’s crust, ultimately triggering quakes."

https://astronomy.com/news/2020/07/powerful-eruptions-on-the-sun-might-trigger-earthquakes

 

An interesting example of what you are suggesting occurred just prior to the Loma Prieta quake in 1989. A large emp signal was detected by a navy underwater surveillance system which sat in Monterey bay just prior to that large quake.

[Christopher S.]

I believe we discussed this in this thread: 

If you wish to restart the conversation, here are a couple things to get started: 

Take note of the last m7.5+ Earthquakes, as these are the most obvious and significant. 

Here is the archive for GOES Proton sensors in the Satellite Environment: https://satdat.ngdc.noaa.gov/sem/goes/data/plots/ Just click on a year, and the month in question. These are legacy G-15 sensors, mind you.

Our conclusion was that there doesn't seem to be a correlation in most cases, and whenever there might be a correlation, it is a weak one.

[goldminor]

Here is a related study to the emp pulse in 1989 which preceded the great quake. ... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0031920191900064

 

and another article, ... https://www.wired.com/2007/12/evidence-mounts-for-electromagnetic-earthquake-precursors/

[Aeon]

On 18/7/2020 at 21:47, Christopher S. said:

Credo che ne abbiamo discusso in questo thread: 

Se desideri riavviare la conversazione, ecco un paio di cose per iniziare: 

Prendi nota degli ultimi m7.5 + Terremoti, in quanto questi sono i più ovvi e significativi. 

Ecco l'archivio dei sensori GOES Proton nell'ambiente satellitare:  https://satdat.ngdc.noaa.gov/sem/goes/data/plots/  Basta fare clic su un anno e il mese in questione. Questi sono sensori G-15 legacy, intendiamoci.

La nostra conclusione è stata che non sembra esserci una correlazione nella maggior parte dei casi, e ogni volta che potrebbe esserci una correlazione, è debole.

I took a few days to read the pages.
The post of 9 February you wrote found interesting matches instead, not always but a good number.
Good job.

But I would like to continue this discussion without talking about planetary alignments or similar stuff, except the influence of the lunar tides.

20 hours ago, goldminor said:

Ecco uno studio correlato all'impulso emp nel 1989 che ha preceduto il grande terremoto. ... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0031920191900064

 

e un altro articolo, ... https://www.wired.com/2007/12/evidence-mounts-for-electromagnetic-earthquake-precursors/

These signals could be connected to the seismic lights sighted during earthquakes.
It would be interesting to know at what time the sun sets at that latitude at that time of year beyond if there was an increase in the solar wind in that period since it was a year of solar maximum.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Aeon

[goldminor]

Here is something of interest just today. Here is a comment which I made on WUWT on the morning of the 20th in response to another comment about the current planetary alignment. "

I have also been watching this interesting set of planetary alignments. Look up some of the great quakes which have occurred in history, and planetary alignments at the time of those quakes. One obvious feature of note which I have seen for some of these great quakes is that they occur when multiple planets line up with each other. especially when the inner planets are grouped together.

I still think that the main trigger of import is the phases of the moon. The next several days could be of interest as the new moon is in place as of yesterday. I have been watching China in respect to this. Waterlogged China has been relatively quiet for quakes over the last several months. With water in the Three Gorges dam at peak heights a strong quake in that area could have significant consequences. ...". ... https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/16/new-posts-suspended-wuwt-moving-to-new-server/?unapproved=3037712&moderation-hash=74d269938fef17731193bcc6077d17bb#comment-3037712

Then here is what recently happened 2 days later on the 22nd "So look at what just happened on the last night of the New Moon, a 7.8 quake struck in the Aleutian Islands close to the Alaskan mainland. Plus there were 4 strong quakes in Qamdo China over the previous 3 days of the New Moon. … https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/#%7B%22autoUpdate%22%3A%5B%22autoUpdate%22%5D%2C%22basemap%22%3A%22satellite%22%2C%22feed%22%3A%221day_m25%22%2C%22listFormat%22%3A%22default%22%2C%22mapposition%22%3A%5B%5B-83.40004205976699%2C-350.859375%5D%2C%5B83.35951133035452%2C166.2890625%5D%5D%2C%22overlays%22%3A%5B%22plates%22%5D%2C%22restrictListToMap%22%3A%5B%22restrictListToMap%22%5D%2C%22search%22%3Anull%2C%22sort%22%3A%22newest%22%2C%22timezone%22%3A%22utc%22%2C%22viewModes%22%3A%5B%22list%22%2C%22map%22%5D%2C%22event%22%3Anull%7D

 

Whoa, hold the presses, a 6.2 just struck at Tofino Canada, west coast of Canada. The USGS quake map rate of quakes has continued to rise rapidly over the last 36 hours.

The 6.2 was just downgraded to a 5.4 at Tofino Canada.

[goldminor]

8 hours ago, goldminor said:

 

 

The 6.2 was just downgraded to a 5.4 at Tofino Canada.

A strong 6.1 just struck in Xizang close to where the earlier quakes struck in western China.

Forgot to add that a large landslide which was probably caused by yesterday/s quakes around Qamdo is threatening a near by dam. Authoritues have asked residents below the dam to evacuate.

[Christopher S.]

As I explained previously, the phases of the Moon usually have no bearing on tidal effects - it is simply how the light is visible from Earth. The exact position of the moon relative to the Sun is what causes tidal stress to wax and wane. In this case, however, simply put: the Moon and the Sun have combined tidal force in a longitudinal direction. I believe the layman's math on the magnitude of tidal stress in the direction of the two celestial bodies, Sun and Moon, is 1.33x lunar tidal stress(as the Sun creates only one-third(1/3) of the tidal stress relative to the Moon). 

This is certainly enough to trigger a seismic reaction in imbalanced, unstable tectonic/volcanic regions. Imagine pulling tissue, gradually increasing the force exerted until you reach the limits of its binding strength, in which it rips - that is essentially what is happening beneath the Earth's crust during a partial solar eclipse - then, imagine relaxing the force exerted on the tissue gradually, allowing it to fall into its new "shape". This can be seen manifesting as aftershocks. It is in a somewhat unpredictable state of chaos well underground.

The m7.8 is certainly epic in its own right, being felt by seismometers as far as mid-west US - I'm certain this has caused a very, very small displacement of topography, that is to say that the ground beneath us has maybe risen, or fallen in elevation, or shifted laterally by maybe less than a millimeter, or maybe more. Measurements will need to be taken.

Another reminder, and some fun facts: a m8.0 is ≈32x as strong as a m7.0. A m7.8 is more than 15x as strong(energy exerted) as a m7.0. This should put into perspective the significance of the Alaskan earthquake relative to the smaller quakes that have occurred since then. The great Chilean Earthquake of 1960, ≈m9.5, was ≈355x as strong(energy exerted) as the m7.8 quake that we have just experienced, and was also ≈50x larger in actual size. Sounds puny, eh?

Use this tool for understanding seismic magnitudes: https://earthquake.usgs.gov/education/calculator.php

More on-topic: this image here shows no variation in the SEM at the time of the quake(06:12), or the days before: 

Here is a look at quakes of magnitude greater than m5.5 in the last 36 days or so, just for perspective on quake activity lately: 

Going back another 15 or so days, there had not been any greater than a m6.8 quake. On August 18th, a New Moon was beginning to manifest, reaching it's "peak" on the 19th. A m7.4 in Oceania, and a m7.4 in southwest Mexico(along the "ring of fire", or rather, the Pacific Plate boundaries) illustrate this stretching and relaxing I described with the analogy of the tissue. Note that many of the areas with these significant quakes are constantly experiencing some sort of volcanic or tectonic activity, so do not be alarmed. This is normal for Oceania, parts of Mexico, and Iceland. An Alaskan quake, however, is more uncommon, and can be quite disruptive of other tectonic boundaries' stability.

See this map for perspective: 

 

This is not related to solar flares. The weak CME heading roughly toward Earth has not made it here, yet. This is surely the result of the Sun-Moon configuration, perhaps with influence from Saturn and Jupiter(which are relatively close to each other in orbit) on opposite side of the Sun-Moon. While our posts are not quite on-topic, I believe they serve to explain in-depth the most significant influencers of seismic activity, and mostly disassociate solar flare activity from quakes currently being experienced on Earth. In other words, if there is some sort of influence from solar flares, it is far weaker than tidal forces, and tectonic instability.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Christopher S.
Overhauled entire comment to explain several things. Typos fixed. Math fixed. Optimized for translation in several places.

[Christopher S.]

As we have a New Moon(or just coming out of one) at time of writing, I have been monitoring EQ activity, and while it is not too different from usual EQ activity and certainly not in regions where EQs are rare, there seems to be building evidence to support the idea presented by goldminor previously. 

Note the depth of the 8/21 quake. This is right at or below the subduction zone of the two tectonic plates involved. Quite interesting. There is also a noticeable gap between quakes above m6.0 of about 15 days:

 

Note that this occurred around 11am local time for the epicenter of the quake. This would put it in-line with the sun/moon(roughly as these aren't perfectly aligned) which is interesting to note for future observations or in retrospect of other big events.

I know this isn't about the solar flares►quakes discussion, but this is where we last left off. Apologies for any unwanted notifications.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Christopher S.

[Marcel de Bont]

I realize this is quite a sensitive topic for some but for me it is very clear, there is absolutely no connection between solar flares and earthquakes. This video on YouTube from Keith Strong covers everything you can think of and I do think it is a much watch for everyone:

 

[zackMcSack]

1 hour ago, Marcel de Bont said:

I realize this is quite a sensitive topic for some but for me it is very clear, there is absolutely no connection between solar flares and earthquakes.

then better read again your explanation for Solar Flares you use on your own FAQ:

Quote

A solar flare occurs when magnetic energy that has built up in the solar atmosphere is suddenly released. Material is heated to many millions of degrees in just minutes and radiation is emitted across virtually the entire electromagnetic spectrum, from radio waves at the long wavelength end, through optical emission to X-rays and gamma rays at the short wavelength end.

as not a physicist, but an electrician I can say that such large energy induced into a partially rocky object leads to inverse Piezoelectric effect – Applied Piezo without any doubt.

i am not sure about the minimum energy (Flare Class), but i guess with the right Geomagnetic conditions and the right Geologic conductivity, even a small A-Class Flare would be enough to cause measurable seismic activity.

Edited August 21, 2020 by zackMcSack

[Aeon]

Non ho dubbi che le fasi lunari siano importanti.
Tuttavia, credo che la risposta tra le tempeste solari possa essere in tre dettagli: fase giorno / notte, luci sismiche, elettricità.
Le aree in cui si verificano i terremoti sono zone di faglia sotto pressione da tempo.
 

[goldminor]

18 hours ago, Christopher S. said:

 

Note that this occurred around 11am local time for the epicenter of the quake. This would put it in-line with the sun/moon(roughly as these aren't perfectly aligned) which is interesting to note for future observations or in retrospect of other big events.

I know this isn't about the solar flares►quakes discussion, but this is where we last left off. Apologies for any unwanted notifications.

Glad to see you taking a second look at the thought. I think that the idea has merit. Watching over a period of time ( for at least half a year) should confirm that a greater number of the larger quakes strike at the peak phases of the moon. I would think that tidal forces could be the key part to that, but this is something which better minds could look into to assess what effects may be at play. I have been watching the daily quake maps since March 2011, ever since the Great Tohoku Quake. My interest is also due to my living in earthquake country ( I grew up in San Francisco). My very first quake experience occurred in 1957. That morning I had run up my body temperature to convince my mom that I was sick. I didn't have my homework done, and didn't want to face the teacher. Around mid morning my mom stepped out to go to the corner store leaving me alone for a moment. That is when the quake struck. My bed shook violently, and I was certain that there was something under the bed. I was too afraid to look. Then in a flash my mom came running into the room, and she explained what had just happened.. That was quite an experience.

I was also in the city for the very strong Loma Prieta quake in 1989. The city was lucky that it only lasted 15 seconds.

[Christopher S.]

24 minutes ago, goldminor said:

Watching over a period of time ( for at least half a year) should confirm that a greater number of the larger quakes strike at the peak phases of the moon. I would think that tidal forces could be the key part to that, but this is something which better minds could look into to assess what effects may be at play.

We needn't watch and wait with an abundance of data to review. Any iterations in the future of a repeating, consistent trend would look indistinct from the trends of the past.

The tidal forces exerted on the Earth are indeed quite strong, enough to cause daily variance of sea level by up to several feet in some areas. If you can imagine how strong of an EQ is necessary to cause such a displacement of water(a tsunami) then imagine that amount of energy exerted constantly, rather than in one quick release. This is far stronger than other phenomenon associated with a New Moon phase. Theoretical physics and conventional understanding of such tidal stresses can lead us solidly to the conclusion of what causes the pattern - we need only to provide plenty of evidence for it and compile it into a paper or article.

The implications of this finding is just that a correlation has been observed and confirmed to exist where it was otherwise dismissed before. It does not allow us to predict where, when, and in what manner the quakes will occur to any meaningful level of precision, however it may prove helpful for seismologists who have been looking for answers pertaining to waxing and waning of seismic activity, or help to explain why some quakes are so much stronger than others. There are many mysteries still to that end which the "maximum" tidal stress factor does not answer alone.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Christopher S.

[goldminor]

@ Christopher ...here is an interesting tidbit. Note that the number of quakes per 24 hours has dropped shortly after the end of the New Moon. This is a pattern which was dominant for some time when I first started watching the daily quake maps.. This pattern does change up over time though, and shifts into a new pattern which is then prevalent for some period of time. This particular pattern where the 24 rate subsides after the peak phases of the moon has only just reasserted itself once again in recent months. It had been absent for several years. I have no idea of what causes the pattern to shift, but it certainly does over time.

 

Once in place though it will be very regular/consistent. The full pattern is that the 24 hour rate increases as the peak phase approaches, and then subsides in the days following the peak. This is for the Full and New moons, and to a lesser extent at the mid points.

[Ron NL]

I'm am really impressed how some incl moderator ... deny any relation between the Sun and the Earth 

It does not influence anything on earth ... except the QSL cards  ... ha ha. 

[Christopher S.]

2 hours ago, Ron NL said:

I'm am really impressed how some incl moderator ... deny any relation between the Sun and the Earth 

It does not influence anything on earth ... except the QSL cards  ... ha ha. 

You misinterpret us. We have agreed that a specific phenomenon on Earth isn't caused by a specific phenomenon on the Sun. The relation of these two bodies to each other is elementary school level stuff nobody would refute; we're interested in the nuanced.

[MissNeona]

On 7/18/2020 at 9:39 AM, Aeon said:

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-67860-3

"After noticing the correlation between solar proton flux and strong earthquakes, the researchers went on to propose a possible explanation: a mechanism called the reverse piezoelectric effect.
Previous experiments have clearly shown that compressing quartz, a rock common in the Earth’s crust, can generate an electrical pulse through a process known as the piezoelectric effect. The researchers think that such small pulses could destabilize faults that are already close to rupturing, triggering earthquakes. In fact, signatures from electromagnetic events — such as earthquake lightning and radio waves — have been recorded occurring alongside earthquakes in the past. Some researchers think these events are caused by the earthquakes themselves. But several other studies have detected strong electromagnetic anomalies before large earthquakes, not after, so the exact nature of the relationship between earthquakes and electromagnetic events is still debated.
The new explanation, however, flips this electromagnetic cause-and-effect on its head, suggesting electromagnetic anomalies aren’t the result of earthquakes, but instead cause them. It goes like this: As positively charged protons from the Sun crash into Earth protective magnetic bubble, they create electromagnetic currents that propagate across the globe. Pulses created by these currents could then go on to deform quartz in Earth’s crust, ultimately triggering quakes."

https://astronomy.com/news/2020/07/powerful-eruptions-on-the-sun-might-trigger-earthquakes

 

Seems like there might be a correlation, seeing what just happened in Japan in relation to the X flare. 

[Sam Warfel]

Remember, correlation doesn’t necessarily equal causation. It can, but doesn’t have to. 

[tniickck]

7 hours ago, MissNeona said:

Seems like there might be a correlation, seeing what just happened in Japan in relation to the X flare. 

The CME hasn’t even impact the Earth yet😃😃😃

Edited January 1 by tniickck
grammar

[SpaceWeather5464]

Just a coincidence.

[AScaredObserver]

So... Suspicious0bservers was RIGHT?

Oh dear...

[Vancanneyt Sander]

3 minuten geleden, AScaredObserver zei:

So... Suspicious0bservers was RIGHT?

Oh dear...

No… this graph says it all… even in low solar activity(solar minimum) we see Earth quakes with magnitudes as strong as the Japanese one… 

[pope pius]

Sorry, but I'm a geophysicist and I follow a little bit since ages the 'holy grail' of the earthquake prediction. The lunar/tidal theory is over 30 years old and nothing has come out of it. So forget about it unless you are smarter than hundreds of researcher and come up with new & better arguments.

This paper is also only based on statistics (1:100.000 isn't that rare and statistics have to be checked very carefully for misinterpretations) and the proposed method with piezo elastic effects on quartzite will not work for most earthquakes as the rupture plane of most earthquakes is within the sedimentary package of the subducted oceanic plate (most earthquakes are related to subduction zones, especially the big ones). That are clays and their special behavior after dehydration (stick-slip) is important for the generation of earthquakes. 

If the authors would have had better arguments, they would have tried to get the paper published in a higher impact paper and not in Scientific Report. But OK, it's a peer review magazin.

Edited January 1 by pope pius
Extension

[pope pius]

19 minutes ago, Vancanneyt Sander said:

No… this graph says it all… even in low solar activity(solar minimum) we see Earth quakes with magnitudes as strong as the Japanese one… 

That is correct! The size-distribution of earthquakes and their frequency hasn't changed since they are monitored in a modern way. That is since around 100 years (the Richter scale is from 1934). There is NO 11-year cycle in the earthquake data. Make the Fourier analysis of the blue curve 🙂