New theory describes process behind solar flares

[KW2P]

https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-tiny-physics-behind-immense-cosmic-eruptions-20230515/

 

[Philalethes]

Awesome. The physics of that is definitely a bit too advanced for me to fully wrap my head around, but it's great to see people who actively work on it make progress. That animation of the simulated electrons and ions is mesmerizing!

[KW2P]

2 hours ago, Philalethes said:

Awesome. The physics of that is definitely a bit too advanced for me to fully wrap my head around, but it's great to see people who actively work on it make progress. That animation of the simulated electrons and ions is mesmerizing!

Yeah, me too. I'm still thinking about it and building a visualization in my mind. It's long been a mystery, how some of these ultra-high energy outbursts in the universe can take place, like cosmic rays packing stupendous energy. We don't know of any mechanism even remotely capable of producing them -- until maybe now.

If this theory turns out to be correct, then we've just discovered a fundamental mechanism that might also be useful. Maybe this could lead to an entirely new way to achieve nuclear fusion or a new way to build particle accelerators.

[Nilesh]

On 5/22/2023 at 3:13 AM, KW2P said:

Yeah, me too. I'm still thinking about it and building a visualization in my mind. It's long been a mystery, how some of these ultra-high energy outbursts in the universe can take place, like cosmic rays packing stupendous energy. We don't know of any mechanism even remotely capable of producing them -- until maybe now.

If this theory turns out to be correct, then we've just discovered a fundamental mechanism that might also be useful. Maybe this could lead to an entirely new way to achieve nuclear fusion or a new way to build particle accelerators.

Hi,

Suppose we know why it erupts than what ?. We have already a large accelerators, what we understood from it.   

[KW2P]

10 hours ago, Nilesh said:

Hi,

Suppose we know why it erupts than what ?. We have already a large accelerators, what we understood from it.   

Perhaps some reading and study of physics would be useful for you.

You mention particle accelerators. What good is it? The technology you are using to write your message, the chips in your phone and laptop, wouldn't exist if it weren't for particle accelerator technology. The display in your phone wouldn't exist without an understanding of quantum mechanics.

You could begin with the Wikipedia article on CERN and then read about Fermilab that came before it.

As an aside, the Web itself that you are using was invented by Tim Berners-Lee at CERN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN

You could then go here https://home.cern/ All of the research is published and you can delve as deeply into it as you like.

Understanding the details of how solar flaring takes place has many potential practical applications that could apply to everyday life. The most obvious is that the sun can on rare occasions pose a real threat and understanding/predicting this would be useful.

If this discovery could be applied to particle accelerators, it would bear on the health and welfare of everyone alive. As you may know, particle accelerators are not just research devices but are used every day in applications ranging from chip manufacturing, to food processing, to medical treatment in hospitals.

Lastly, as with all scientific discoveries and breakthroughs, it takes years for the effects and benefits to apply. This discovery looks to me like it might be a big one.

[Archmonoth]

On 5/20/2023 at 11:31 PM, KW2P said:

https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-tiny-physics-behind-immense-cosmic-eruptions-20230515/

 

This is very interesting! The article links the study they are referencing, and I particularly liked this quote/observation: 

 

"Magnetic reconnection converts magnetic energy into plasma thermal and kinetic energy in laboratory, space, and astrophysical plasmas."

 

 

[Bry]

Awesome article, thanks for sharing! Here’s some of my thoughts on quotes from their review with the limited amount of physics I do understand:

Very cool to read that the mass difference between electrons and protons might be the driving force for magnetic reconnections being faster or 10% of what they would expect.

Its cool to recognize the Hall effect has been around for a while & used in fuel cell or battery physics from the 1870’s, and apparently as the basis of our magnetometers and digital compasses today.

Quotes I found interesting from the main topic article: 

“For the past two decades, physicists have suspected that an electromagnetic phenomenon known as the Hall effect might hold the secret to speedy reconnection: Negatively charged electrons and positively charged ions have different masses, so they travel along magnetic field lines at different speeds. That speed differential generates a voltage between the separated charges.”

 

”The first paper, published in Communications Physics, describes how the voltage induces a magnetic field that draws electrons away from the center of the two colliding magnetic regions. That diversion produces a vacuum that sucks in new field lines and pinches them in the center, allowing the magnetic slingshot to form more quickly.”

”In the second paper, published in Physical Review Letters, Liu and his undergraduate research assistant Matthew Goodbred describe how the same vacuum effect emerges in extreme plasmas containing different ingredients. Around black holes, for example, plasmas are thought to consist of electrons and equally massive positrons, so the Hall effect no longer applies. Yet, “magically, reconnection is still working in a similar way,” Liu said. The researchers propose that within these stronger magnetic fields, most of the energy is spent accelerating particles rather than heating them — again creating a pressure depletion that yields the divine 10% rate.”

 

Seems like they are saying the proton-to-electron mass ratio might be different for stars vs black holes because they said :

black hole plasmas have “equally massive positrons as electrons” and thus the Hall effect “shouldn’t” apply yet still somehow particles are accelerated rather than heating them anyways at 10% the speed?

Here is positron wiki quote I thought was relevant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron

”The positron or antielectron is the antiparticle(antimatter counterpart) of the electron. It has an electric charge of +1 e, a spin of 1/2 (the same as the electron), and the same mass as an electron. When a positron collides with an electron, annihilation occurs. If this collision occurs at low energies, it results in the production of two or more photons.”

- so maybe photons are produced when positrons collide with electrons as jets out of black holes & stars at lower energies instead of annihilating?

I wonder if the mass ratio between electrons and protons changes over time due to the strong force changing over time & space... especially between stars and black holes, and if that might produce difference in reconnection speed & the red shift we observe based off:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton-to-electron_mass_ratio

”In physics, the proton-to-electron mass ratio, μ or β, is the rest mass of the proton (a baryon found in atoms) divided by that of the electron (a lepton found in atoms), a dimensionless quantity, namely:

μ = m_p/m_e = 1836.15267343(11).^[1]

“Astrophysicists have tried to find evidence that μ has changed over the history of the universe. (The same question has also been asked of the fine-structure constant.) One interesting cause of such change would be change over time in the strength of the strong force.”

Cool article, curious what it all means because this all seems universally applicable to me. I sure learned a lot thanks a bunch!

 

 

 

[Nilesh]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:30 PM, KW2P said:

Perhaps some reading and study of physics would be useful for you.

You mention particle accelerators. What good is it? The technology you are using to write your message, the chips in your phone and laptop, wouldn't exist if it weren't for particle accelerator technology. The display in your phone wouldn't exist without an understanding of quantum mechanics.

You could begin with the Wikipedia article on CERN and then read about Fermilab that came before it.

As an aside, the Web itself that you are using was invented by Tim Berners-Lee at CERN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN

You could then go here https://home.cern/ All of the research is published and you can delve as deeply into it as you like.

Understanding the details of how solar flaring takes place has many potential practical applications that could apply to everyday life. The most obvious is that the sun can on rare occasions pose a real threat and understanding/predicting this would be useful.

If this discovery could be applied to particle accelerators, it would bear on the health and welfare of everyone alive. As you may know, particle accelerators are not just research devices but are used every day in applications ranging from chip manufacturing, to food processing, to medical treatment in hospitals.

Lastly, as with all scientific discoveries and breakthroughs, it takes years for the effects and benefits to apply. This discovery looks to me like it might be a big one.

Thank you for your concern. Like to dive deep. I will be in touch. 

On 5/24/2023 at 9:30 PM, KW2P said:

Perhaps some reading and study of physics would be useful for you.

You mention particle accelerators. What good is it? The technology you are using to write your message, the chips in your phone and laptop, wouldn't exist if it weren't for particle accelerator technology. The display in your phone wouldn't exist without an understanding of quantum mechanics.

You could begin with the Wikipedia article on CERN and then read about Fermilab that came before it.

As an aside, the Web itself that you are using was invented by Tim Berners-Lee at CERN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN

You could then go here https://home.cern/ All of the research is published and you can delve as deeply into it as you like.

Understanding the details of how solar flaring takes place has many potential practical applications that could apply to everyday life. The most obvious is that the sun can on rare occasions pose a real threat and understanding/predicting this would be useful.

If this discovery could be applied to particle accelerators, it would bear on the health and welfare of everyone alive. As you may know, particle accelerators are not just research devices but are used every day in applications ranging from chip manufacturing, to food processing, to medical treatment in hospitals.

Lastly, as with all scientific discoveries and breakthroughs, it takes years for the effects and benefits to apply. This discovery looks to me like it might be a big one.

There is a Statue of Shiva at CERN.  

[KW2P]

6 hours ago, Nilesh said:

Thank you for your concern. Like to dive deep. I will be in touch. 

There is a Statue of Shiva at CERN.  

Yes there is. During the 1960s and 70s, parallels were frequently drawn between the particle physics being discovered and Eastern religions/philosophies. You'll see it in papers published at the time. It even appears in charts in the CRC Handbook.

[Nilesh]

1 hour ago, KW2P said:

Yes there is. During the 1960s and 70s, parallels were frequently drawn between the particle physics being discovered and Eastern religions/philosophies. You'll see it in papers published at the time. It even appears in charts in the CRC Handbook.

Right, Means rediscovering something known to earlier, already mentioned in their Holy Books. In 63 years they could have find many real knowledgeble Saints who could helped them in this research.  What's your opinion on this point ?

[KW2P]

11 hours ago, Nilesh said:

Right, Means rediscovering something known to earlier, already mentioned in their Holy Books. In 63 years they could have find many real knowledgeble Saints who could helped them in this research.  What's your opinion on this point ?

Well, that's not what it meant. Ancient philosophers were not doing particle physics nor science of any kind. It was a product of my generation's interest in Eastern philosophies, an interest that I still have. The symmetries in Eastern art, things like a mandala, and imagery like the multi-armed gods of Hinduism seemed reminiscent of the complexity and symmetries of particle physics. And it was "cool".  😉

[Nilesh]

2 hours ago, KW2P said:

Well, that's not what it meant. Ancient philosophers were not doing particle physics nor science of any kind. It was a product of my generation's interest in Eastern philosophies, an interest that I still have. The symmetries in Eastern art, things like a mandala, and imagery like the multi-armed gods of Hinduism seemed reminiscent of the complexity and symmetries of particle physics. And it was "cool".  😉

Well, there must be some ground on which you are so confident that Ancient philosophers were not doing particle physics. Let's see what wiki pedia says about the mass of an electron  " The electron relative atomic mass is an adjusted parameter in the CODATA set of fundamental physical constants, while the electron rest mass in kilograms is calculated from the values of the Planck constant, the fine-structure constant and the Rydberg constant". "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_mass". 4 constant there. Why is it so ?

[Archmonoth]

On 5/26/2023 at 8:42 AM, Nilesh said:

Right, Means rediscovering something known to earlier, already mentioned in their Holy Books. In 63 years they could have find many real knowledgeble Saints who could helped them in this research.  What's your opinion on this point ?

Philosophy and religion deal in abstracts, ambiguity and vague poetic reflections of the human experience. 

The language of science is more specific with its descriptions. 

 

Religion also deals in asserting truth and absolutes; science never claims the boundaries of any absolute. Math does deal in axioms, but there is no moral weight to the axioms of math. 

 

I know you weren't asking me, but it's a common question, and perhaps this answer helps distinguish between the 2 languages better. 

22 hours ago, Nilesh said:

Well, there must be some ground on which you are so confident that Ancient philosophers were not doing particle physics.

Naw not even close. I don't mean to be dismissive, but the microscope wasn't event invented until the 1700s. They might have conceptually discussed really small things, patterns, or geometry, but they had no scope or language for any practical descriptions of what is contemporary physics. 

22 hours ago, Nilesh said:

4 constant there. Why is it so ?

Numbers are abstract symbols of quantities, not inherent references of concepts like the Plank constant. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Archmonoth

[KW2P]

22 hours ago, Nilesh said:

...the fine-structure constant and the Rydberg constant". "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_mass". 4 constant there. Why is it so ?

This is an excellent question, but nobody knows why the fine-structure constant is what it is. Hopefully, we will know someday. The fact that the explanation for the value of alpha is a mystery invites religious interpretation for some.  I suspect that it's related to something extremely basic about our universe, like the total amount of mass in a universe determines the value of alpha in that universe.  Some other universe will have a different value. But that's just conjecture on my part.

Hopefully we'll eventually figure it out.

[Sam Warfel]

We've gone from solar flares to religion/philosophy, and this is definitely not the purpose of these forums.  If you really want to discuss that, take it to DMs, or a forum about religion and science, which this is not.