What is going on with these protons?

[Archmonoth]

What is going on with these protons?

 

 

I haven't seen this kind of activity before. Does anyone know what causes this behavior? 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Archmonoth

[Marcel de Bont]

It's the result of this major far side coronal mass ejection.

[Archmonoth]

7 minutes ago, Marcel de Bont said:

It's the result of this major far side coronal mass ejection.

 

Impressive, most impressive, thanks Marcel. What strength CME does it need to be to agitate the protons like this? 

[Marcel de Bont]

Cant really tell, I mean it has to be a major eruption of course for far side protons to reach us but we also need to have a good connection with the eruption location with the parker spiral.

[Archmonoth]

1 hour ago, Marcel de Bont said:

Cant really tell, I mean it has to be a major eruption of course for far side protons to reach us but we also need to have a good connection with the eruption location with the parker spiral.

Could this be some of the remnants of the blast? 2023/13/3  16:18

[Marcel de Bont]

That is another coronal mass ejection.

[Archmonoth]

3 minutes ago, Marcel de Bont said:

That is another coronal mass ejection.

Oh snap... Thanks again Marcel.

Is this another far side CME? 

[Marcel de Bont]

Front side filament eruption but heading way north, not aimed at Earth.

[Philalethes]

3 hours ago, Archmonoth said:

Impressive, most impressive, thanks Marcel. What strength CME does it need to be to agitate the protons like this? 

There's a couple of pages of discussion about this CME so far in the "Incoming Regions" thread; that blast was really powerful.

[Archmonoth]

3 hours ago, Philalethes Bythos said:

There's a couple of pages of discussion about this CME so far in the "Incoming Regions" thread; that blast was really powerful.

Thanks, I was late to the party. 

[Philalethes]

13 hours ago, Archmonoth said:

Thanks, I was late to the party. 

Arguably it would be better to discuss it in a thread of its own, like this one, but that's where the discussion about it started to happen.

As for the protons, they're up again now; not sure if it's caused by the same event or something later. There's geomagnetic activity too, but I would guess that's from the CH that faced us a couple of days ago (maybe there's some interaction between the two).

[Marcel de Bont]

I also missed that topic, it is just easier to create new topics instead of pilling everything in an existing topic and try to follow what I missed haha. This event sure warrants its own discussion/topic in my opinion. I guess the recent uptick in solar protons are still caused by the far side eruption. I see no other eruption that can be blamed.

In case anyone missed it I added this animation of the eruption on Twitter yesterday.

[Philalethes]

2 minutes ago, Marcel de Bont said:

I also missed that topic, it is just easier to create new topics instead of pilling everything in an existing topic and try to follow what I missed haha. This event sure warrants its own discussion/topic in my opinion. I guess the recent uptick in solar protons are still caused by the far side eruption. I see no other eruption that can be blamed.

Yeah, exactly. Just thought I'd mention that there was some discussion there in case they'd like to read it, but I also think having a separate thread for it is better.

And yeah, I would think the same about the protons, but that does seem a bit strange, given how their energies are related to their speed; I don't quite see how you could suddenly get another uptick. Presumably they must be following a different trajectory, but I'm not really sure how that'd work.

[arjemma]

I didn't realize that it was gonna be so big when I posted the LASCO gif in the incoming regions thread. I do agree that we should have started a new thread when we realized how big it was.

[Philalethes]

7 minutes ago, arjemma said:

I didn't realize that it was gonna be so big when I posted the LASCO gif in the incoming regions thread.

«The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not “Eureka!”, but “That's funny...”»

[arjemma]

1 minute ago, Philalethes Bythos said:

«The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not “Eureka!”, but “That's funny...”»

Haha very true!

[Archmonoth]

My guess is the CME on the far side ionized a ton of protons, and the current sheet spread them out. This isn't anything controversial, just speculating on the source of the elevated protons. 

 

EDIT: Perhaps with the proton behavior and abundance this qualifies as an SPE (Solar Proton Event), and if it is, it's an example of protons affecting tree rings, or being deposited without a direct Earth facing CME/Flare. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Archmonoth

[helios]

@ArchmonothIt is indeed a proton event, but proton events like this, with origin on the backside are fairly common. We already had a few in this cycle.

I think what you mean is a ground level event (or ground level enhancement, GLE), which this one was not.
They require higher energy protons, usually >400 MeV. 

 

[David Silver]

Lesser ground level effects happen regularly through the global electric circuit. But major ground level SEPs are rare.

“(Koskinen et al., 2001:
Ground Level Events (GLE). Such events typically occur only once or twice per solar cycle. During September and October 1989 a series of events led to enhancements of up to a factor 6 at Concorde altitudes (Dyer et al, 1990), while at mountain altitudes neutrons were increased by a factor 3. Dose-rates would have been of order 100 microSieverts per hour at Concorde and 20 microSieverts per hour at conventional altitudes. The largest ground level event was on 23 February 1956 when a factor 50 increase occurred at high latitudes (1 GV rigidity cut-off). The latitude dependence during solar particle events is much steeper than for quiet-time (Quenby and Webber, 1959). During the 1956 event the enhancement factor was 10 at 3 GV and 2 at 5 GV. It is believed that there were no aircraft observations and the event preceded spaceflight. It is estimated that aircraft dose rates could have been as high as 30 milliSieverts (mSv) per hour at Concorde altitudes and 10 mSv per hour at conventional altitudes (Foelsche, 1974) so that very serious doses could have been received. During a single flight on 23 February 1956, passengers and crew at conventional altitudes could well have exceeded the currently recommended annual exposure limit for radiation workers (20 mSv).”
 

Also enjoy this NASA SEPs article

 

[David Silver]

Still trending upward.

[hamateur 1953]

Very interesting above nasa link!  tnx David! 

9 hours ago, arjemma said:

Haha very true!

My favorite dude RP Feynman remarked the same in one of his many books!!!

9 hours ago, arjemma said:

Haha very true!

It shouldn’t have done THAT!!

[Philalethes]

16 minutes ago, David Silver said:

Still trending upward.

That seems like a pretty weird way of measuring an event like this. From looking at the part where something is actually happening (both in that image and in the data elsewhere) it seems like the growth in proton activity has been asymptotic, or logarithmic at best, and has stabilized at a certain level (for the time being, at least).

The two things I still find most interesting is the long duration and how it rose again after falling significantly; at least that's not something I see every day from a single event like this, but maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention.

[Christopher S.]

Weeeee!