bearnard1609 Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Elon Musk and Space X invest a lot of resources in Starship and Mars colonization. But as most people know the journey to this planet is not a piece of cake and it is rather dangerous for the crew of the spacecraft. Also, they did not figure out how to solve the fuel issue to get to the red planet and bring the crew back. ( Not even mentioning the harsh environment of the red planet. To prepare the crew for it will be very costly to invent special suits or capsules ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher S. Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 I'm not sure that your topic title matches this narrative, but anyways... SpaceX is merely providing the opportunity for people to say that they were the very first Earthlings to colonize Mars. Some people would risk their lives and spend a lot of money to be prolific in that way. That is very different from a mass exodus off of Earth, which is not only infeasible in the short term, there is yet to be any practical studies on human adaptations on Mars. That is another thing people are volunteering: being a science experiment. The first humans, if we're fortunate, will provide us with meaningful and useful data for future colonists. In terms of evolution, technological progression, and human dominion... yes, we need to explore the possibilities in front of us. That is natural organic curiosity and ambition. There is no inherent notion that we "need" to leave this planet any time relatively soon. We do need to start working towards it at some point, as a variety of phenomena out of our control may one day threaten ecological stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearnard1609 Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 I support the Mars exploration campaign. I am so impressed with the results of the Perseverance mission and Ingenuity helicopter. But taking into consideration the colonization of the red planet I guess it would be better to solve issues on Earth and save its environment Also, I`d like to mention ‘Rosalind Franklin’ mission. This mission will attempt to search for life on Mars. The launch is scheduled for 2022. Interesting fact, that this is the first Mars mission by British aerospace companies. https://www.skyrora.com/blog/tag/uk-space-industry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmonoth Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, bearnard1609 said: I support the Mars exploration campaign. I am so impressed with the results of the Perseverance mission and Ingenuity helicopter. But taking into consideration the colonization of the red planet I guess it would be better to solve issues on Earth and save its environment Better is highly subjective, and not exclusive. You can fix things and explore, doing so can provide new technologies to help both causes. Going to Mars is amazing, there is much to learn, but living there? I doubt it. I doubt people will live long term in space at all, perhaps as tourism. Mars has very little atmosphere, 11% the mass of Earth, issues with water remaining liquid, and of course the affects of long term space travel resulting in permanent bone/muscle mass loss. We might be able to change our genetics during a hypothetically long space travel, and then arrive at our planet with the modifications we need. Or we use machine minds to explore, and populate strictly ideal planets. The affects of the human body in space are perhaps a rehearsal for other alien environments. Currently it seems we are jellyfish in an ocean trying to navigate the surf and sand, it might take a while. On 6/7/2021 at 7:47 AM, bearnard1609 said: Elon Musk and Space X invest a lot of resources in Starship and Mars colonization. But as most people know the journey to this planet is not a piece of cake and it is rather dangerous for the crew of the spacecraft. Also, they did not figure out how to solve the fuel issue to get to the red planet and bring the crew back. ( Not even mentioning the harsh environment of the red planet. To prepare the crew for it will be very costly to invent special suits or capsules ) Space X also does non Mars stuff. Recently NASA used a Space X rocket for putting bioluminescent squid and tardigrades in space. Fuel, I suspect is the least of our issues. The math is the hard part, calculating in real time and making adjustments to efficient routes is where the fuel cost can be cut. Ideally you could move cargo between planets with little or no fuel, if the calculations are predictive enough. The benefits of having a human on the Mars trip is by providing real time reactions, something we can replace with enough information. Edited June 8, 2021 by Archmonoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher S. Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 I should add that our business with Earth is entirely a separate notion and enterprise from anything to do with Mars. A new planet of colonists has little to do with the efforts to restore the environment back to a more natural climatic pattern on Earth. It is not as though everyone is abandoning us and leaving. There are plenty of scientists here, with plenty of science to be done. Earth will always be our home, and every human can rightly say that. The first born on Mars however... they will be the first Martian man or woman. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Raybell Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Humanity? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearnard1609 Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 Some scientists consider that Mars colonization it`s the thing that can save humanity in case if Earth becomes the place where it`s impossible to live. I consider there is a chance to save Earth and prevent it to become the place where it`s impossible to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurizio Marsigli Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Fatti non foste a viver come bruti, ma per seguir virtute e caunoscenza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffy-Looking Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Need to colonize, no. Want to, yes... 500 years ago, we crossed an ocean. 100 years ago, we reached the ends of the earth. 50 years ago, we stepped foot on the moon. As a species, we need to explore - it's in our nature. Given our choices: Mars, Venus or Ceres, Mars is the logical place to start. Question is, what do we do when we get there? Plant a flag, drive around, collect samples, take selfies, then what? There are only two options, return to Earth or die on Mars. Given the time of flight and limited payload, it would take numerous trips and many decades to assemble a viable biosphere. The best option would be to shoot one unmanned rocket after another loaded with supplies. Eventually there will be enough resources on the planet to allow a crew to remain for an extended time and start building a colony. Least risk of human life, greatest reward. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfieldmike Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 No is the answer. It's pie in th sky. We need a solution to the ever rapidly increasing human population. Another planet isn't viable in the short time Man has left. All civilisations fail in the end. The next ice age should solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldminor Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 On 6/18/2021 at 4:18 PM, wesfieldmike said: ..... We need a solution to the ever rapidly increasing human population. .... The next ice age should solve the problem. The solution for the rapid population growth is for the US to take in millions of new illegal aliens every year. That will solve all problems including the shortage of housing. I agree with you that the next glaciation will change the picture. On 6/10/2021 at 7:22 AM, bearnard1609 said: Some scientists consider that Mars colonization it`s the thing that can save humanity in case if Earth becomes the place where it`s impossible to live. I consider there is a chance to save Earth and prevent it to become the place where it`s impossible to live. What does the planet need to be saved from? Why would it become impossible to live here? That sounds like sci-fi to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmonoth Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, goldminor said: What does the planet need to be saved from? Why would it become impossible to live here? That sounds like sci-fi to me. This might be off topic, but I like your observation/question. The answer, in my best imagination attempt; we need to be saved from our success. The only shadow further than our success is our ignorance. While this might sound judgmental, I would like to explain a little. Over population is a great example, and you provided an ideal answer. However, with enough houses, the issue is only temporality fixed. As technology increases so does our ability to provide for more people. The distinction between first-world and 3rd-world is a matter logistics. First-world uses forklifts, machines, automation. 3rd world uses human labor. Once we can provide for all, the urge to explore/reproduce/expand increases, this is testable in rats, humans, bees, nearly any animal which exploits resources exponentially. In the early days of population studies, a dude named Malthus expressed that grief and misery were pressures which keep humans from growing exponentially. As we overcome, we grow to fill the capacity of our resources. Pollution, injustice, war, and hunger are consequences human success. War is a margin of resources, injustice a matter of psychological safety, and hunger a matter of neglect. These issues are not from our failure, but our success, pollution is the shadow of technology, and injustice the shadow of power. I think of hunger as a universal language, and until we speak it, our shadow grows. Impossible to live here? Perhaps it could only take a few moments of catastrophic blindness. I don't disagree with what you said, but perhaps human success and good intentions are exactly how we got here. Kurt Vonnegut said "Why would you want to follow the old masters? They are what brought us to this point." Without the complexity of civilization interfering with new ideas, a distant planet could be a quiet place to grow a strange and terrible success. Edited June 21, 2021 by Archmonoth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearnard1609 Posted June 22, 2021 Author Share Posted June 22, 2021 On 6/18/2021 at 12:22 PM, Scruffy-Looking said: Need to colonize, no. Want to, yes... 500 years ago, we crossed an ocean. 100 years ago, we reached the ends of the earth. 50 years ago, we stepped foot on the moon. As a species, we need to explore - it's in our nature. Given our choices: Mars, Venus or Ceres, Mars is the logical place to start. Question is, what do we do when we get there? Plant a flag, drive around, collect samples, take selfies, then what? There are only two options, return to Earth or die on Mars. Given the time of flight and limited payload, it would take numerous trips and many decades to assemble a viable biosphere. The best option would be to shoot one unmanned rocket after another loaded with supplies. Eventually there will be enough resources on the planet to allow a crew to remain for an extended time and start building a colony. Least risk of human life, greatest reward. Yeah, I support space exploration campaign. And I support that fact that we need to explore the red plated in order to expand our knowledge and understanding about space and universe. But taking into consideration colonization of the red planet, personally I consider this idea completely useless and pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmonoth Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 1 hour ago, bearnard1609 said: Yeah, I support space exploration campaign. And I support that fact that we need to explore the red plated in order to expand our knowledge and understanding about space and universe. But taking into consideration colonization of the red planet, personally I consider this idea completely useless and pointless. I don't understand. Do you support colonization to expand our knowledge, or do you think it is pointless? You expressed both ideas as personal opinions, which are contradictory. "I support the fact that we need to explore the red planet to expand knowledge..." This is a personal opinion which describes a use for traveling to Mars. "I consider this idea completely useless...." Yet, you just expressed an opinion saying traveling to Mars is useful by providing knowledge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearnard1609 Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 15 hours ago, Archmonoth said: I don't understand. Do you support colonization to expand our knowledge, or do you think it is pointless? You expressed both ideas as personal opinions, which are contradictory. "I support the fact that we need to explore the red planet to expand knowledge..." This is a personal opinion which describes a use for traveling to Mars. "I consider this idea completely useless...." Yet, you just expressed an opinion saying traveling to Mars is useful by providing knowledge. You probably did not read my previous message attentively. I support Mars exploration campaign in order to expand our knowledge and understanding about space and universe. But I do not support Mars colonization. These two things are completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldminor Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Imo, humanity needs to colonize space for the future benefit of our race. The resources which can be harvested from space objects will relieve the stress on our planet as our technological capabilities continue to expand. Humanity also benefits greatly as new innovations come to light as we struggle to gain greater understanding of how to harness the power systems which will make space travel and colonization a reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffy-Looking Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 On 6/22/2021 at 9:14 AM, bearnard1609 said: Yeah, I support space exploration campaign. And I support that fact that we need to explore the red plated in order to expand our knowledge and understanding about space and universe. But taking into consideration colonization of the red planet, personally I consider this idea completely useless and pointless. At one time people didn't see the need to board a ship for the new world because they believed they had everything they needed on their continent. It wasn't until the first explorers returned with species of plants, animals, and even diseases that they realized the value of the new world - same may be true of Mars. Imagine if a virus that lives in the soil there could cure cancer... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher S. Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Scruffy-Looking said: At one time people didn't see the need to board a ship for the new world because they believed they had everything they needed on their continent. It wasn't until the first explorers returned with species of plants, animals, and even diseases that they realized the value of the new world - same may be true of Mars. Imagine if a virus that lives in the soil there could cure cancer... Your version of exploration is a very naïve and optimistic one. We, as creatures with complex introspective reactions and thoughts, are compelled to conquer our environment by an ascended version of instinct: egotism. Without getting into that, though, we find safety and comfort in unity, and that feeds our desire to be ever-present to one another in society. Being that there's not a dot in the night sky(save the ISS) with us, doesn't it make sense to make our way to the closer ones and have a neighbor there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearnard1609 Posted June 25, 2021 Author Share Posted June 25, 2021 On 6/24/2021 at 3:30 AM, Scruffy-Looking said: At one time people didn't see the need to board a ship for the new world because they believed they had everything they needed on their continent. It wasn't until the first explorers returned with species of plants, animals, and even diseases that they realized the value of the new world - same may be true of Mars. Imagine if a virus that lives in the soil there could cure cancer... That`s a good point. But we can get all samples of soil of the red planet or samples of that virus you`ve mentioned with uncrewed mission. Perseverance Mars mission might be a good example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmonoth Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) On 6/23/2021 at 1:09 AM, bearnard1609 said: These two things are completely different. I don't think so, but I understand your point. There is quite a bit of overlap in the knowledge requirements for manned and un-manned missions. Edited June 28, 2021 by Archmonoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffy-Looking Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 On 6/23/2021 at 7:41 PM, Christopher S. said: Your version of exploration is a very naïve and optimistic one. We, as creatures with complex introspective reactions and thoughts, are compelled to conquer our environment by an ascended version of instinct: egotism. Without getting into that, though, we find safety and comfort in unity, and that feeds our desire to be ever-present to one another in society. Being that there's not a dot in the night sky(save the ISS) with us, doesn't it make sense to make our way to the closer ones and have a neighbor there? No - my version is a very complex one, it's my responses that are simplistic. Having found that few people comprehend anything written above a 5th grade level, I choose to write in simple terms so as not to belittle the audience. Unlike people such as yourself, I do not make assumptions based on a single passage and berate those who don't write a dissertation level response to simple questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 On 6/8/2021 at 12:47 AM, bearnard1609 said: Elon Musk and Space X invest a lot of resources in Starship and Mars colonization. But as most people know the journey to this planet is not a piece of cake and it is rather dangerous for the crew of the spacecraft. Also, they did not figure out how to solve the fuel issue to get to the red planet and bring the crew back. ( Not even mentioning the harsh environment of the red planet. To prepare the crew for it will be very costly to invent special suits or capsules ) The day Neil Armstrong climbed down the ladder of the moon lander and declared "This is one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind", was a truly momentous event. For a time, all too brief, it united people across the globe. It was the stuff dreams were made of, only to then be realised. Not a lot was mentioned about how much money was spent on the space program. I believe if human kind repeats this momentous event by landing on Mars, it will be viewed with the same awe and thrill and so it should. But .... There are so many challenges to putting human kind on Mars, apart from the obvious ones of distance, of Martian atmosphere, of lack of water, of surface temperatures, of radiation levels. These days it would be hard enough to justify the amount of investment in a manned mission to Mars but then to colonise it? Stuff of dreams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher S. Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Scruffy-Looking said: No - my version is a very complex one, it's my responses that are simplistic. Having found that few people comprehend anything written above a 5th grade level, I choose to write in simple terms so as not to belittle the audience. Unlike people such as yourself, I do not make assumptions based on a single passage and berate those who don't write a dissertation level response to simple questions... This is wildly off-track for what is a base-level criticism of something you said - if you won't take it for what it is, then I can't very well rationalize your follow-up comments. What I said has nothing to do with the depth of your comment, nor have I berated you. I suggest not pulling a victim card any time there's a disagreement with you, as it shuts doors and burns bridges needlessly. With that out of the way, let's focus on the substance of your comment. Do you think that the idea of finding a miracle cure for diseases on Mars is not naive or optimistic? Furthermore, do you have anything to say about my addendum to your comment? I intended to expand the narrative here, not cause you to shut down - you established the premise of "why humans explore/go the distance to colonize" in a nice, compact comment, so I gave you a nice, compact response. We can continue that convention of short replies, if you wish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearnard1609 Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 I just wanna repeat my statement one more time. Human life will not be the same on Mars ( if we can colonize it ) as we have on Earth. The environment of the red planet can badly affect the human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmonoth Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, bearnard1609 said: I just wanna repeat my statement one more time. Human life will not be the same on Mars ( if we can colonize it ) as we have on Earth. The environment of the red planet can badly affect the human being. I agree, yet pioneers and explorers are still compelled, regardless of the danger. Personally, would take a 1-way trip to Mars, then happily throw my corpse on it's dusty shoreline. Edited July 1, 2021 by Archmonoth 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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