Does the Earth's Climate Affect Space Weather?

[TommyJo]

Experts have found evidence that climate change near the Earth's surface is due to weather in near space.
Clarification of how the processes in the atmosphere are related near the earth's surface and at an altitude of about 100 kilometres is very important. For example, to predict earthquakes. Scientists knew that changes in the parameters of the ionosphere above the epicentre of a future earthquake are observed a few days before the tremors.
Is this true? And how can this effect to what happens in orbit? 
 

[Vancanneyt Sander]

Well first of all, what’s the source of what you are citing. Let’s start from there  

space weather can have an effect on weather on Earth (Maunder minimum, Dalton minimum).

solar activity does NOT cause Earthquakes or volcanic eruptions.

the above graph shows the solar activity in blue and the red are the Earthquakes. Point made...

solar flares can cause a reaction in the ionosphere, but if you compare that with earthquake data there is no relation 

also a good read: https://www.thesuntoday.org/solar-facts/flares-and-earthquakes/

[Mckinnon]

I honestly dont have a clue but can solar-activity cause changes in the tempature?

[Christopher S.]

38 minutes ago, Mckinnon said:

I honestly dont have a clue but can solar-activity cause changes in the tempature?

To some extent yes. Total Solar Irradiance varies proportionately with the Solar Cycles, and directly affects the amount of heating the Earth receives, but not really to the same degree of magnitude that terrestrial climatological factors do. Since this variance is relatively small, waxes/wanes in a predictable and consistent manner, and occurs over a relatively short period of time, it isn't considered significant enough to factor into climate modeling. Since our weather is highly dynamic and to some extent chaotic, correlating the TSI to ground observations with respect to the other factors hasn't really been a focus.

Since human technology and not-so-eco-friendly means of producing energy also vary quite a bit in an arbitrary manner, the margin of error increases beyond the variance of TSI, so in order to practically measure its true impact on the climate, a large number of things would have to remain completely 100% consistent for decades.

[TommyJo]

Sorry, I already lost the article. It didn't say space weather causes earthquakes. And I certainly never said anywhere that solar activity can raise the temperature. I am only interested in the claim that the Earth can influence space weather in nearby space.

[Mckinnon]

I didnt see where it said no1 can ask questions either i must of missed that part thomas.

[TommyJo]

19 minutes ago, Mckinnon said:

I didnt see where it said no1 can ask questions either i must of missed that part thomas.

You understood me wrong. If I accidentally hit you, I'm sorry.
I am trying to clarify my question and have nothing against other questions.
It's a shame that I can't find the article.
But it made me think that the weather is important not only for launching rockets and satellites. I mean, if terrestrial conditions can affect near space (orbit), then for correct launch calculations, for example, such a SkyHy rocket, you also need to take into account the state in orbit.
I would like them to explain to me in simple words how the Earth can influence space.

[Christopher S.]

Ah, you meant the question exactly as you wrote in the title - I think most of us mistook that for a typo(as in Space Weather affecting Earth's Climate).

Considering how much space is out in space, particularly within the Solar System's outermost reaches(Oort Cloud inner boundary, to be exact), Earth is relatively microscopic in size, and so it doesn't really do anything noteworthy for the near-Earth environment. The furthest extent of Earth's "influence" would be the furthest-reaching "tails" of magnetism, or simply just the outer limits of its magnetosphere, which can play around with plasma flowing from the Sun and charge/discharge particles in certain scenarios.

As a rocket would be leaving the Troposphere, the most adverse conditions for acceleration are alleviated, where beyond that the rocket is hurdling into space at tens of thousands of KM/hour. This is significant enough that the conditions of the mesosphere and thermosphere aren't going to disrupt the pathing of the rocket, which will maintain a high velocity(the speeds of which depend on its intended orbit or mission destination).

To dumb it down, rockets and satellites are typically close enough to Earth to be shielded via it's magnetic field, and far enough away so as to still be subject to the vacuum of space. Apart from that, variance in the outer atmosphere is a very minor factor, and can be account for with certain on-board navigational instruments and propulsion equipment. The primary reason terrestrial weather plays a big role in rocket launches is simple: The lower atmosphere - the Troposphere - contains roughly three-quarters of the total mass of the atmosphere, so that's the biggest hurdle to jump once the rocket lifts off. After that, air becomes thinner, and the general turbulence is greatly diminished. Only in the case of a severe geomagnetic storm would there be any weather-related worries beyond the Stratosphere. 

[Archmonoth]

To a degree yes, but as Christopher said, the Earth is microscopic in the larger environment. 

 

However, the Earth does affect the gravitational environment nearby, specifically the Moon. This is described as Langrage Points: Lagrange point - Wikipedia  

If gravity can be considered a type of weather; there are calms and torrents, vortexes and plateaus, and vast deserts of interstellar voids. Space is very large and gravity's reach is limited by distant and mass. As described here: Inverse-square law - Wikipedia

 

 

[TommyJo]

Thank you for your responses. It helped me a lot. I understand the role of gravity. This can hardly be called the weather.

[Archmonoth]

On 3/22/2021 at 12:27 PM, TommyJo said:

Thank you for your responses. It helped me a lot. I understand the role of gravity. This can hardly be called the weather.

 

Why wouldn't gravity be considered a part of space weather?

I am curious where your semantic threshold is. 

[Christopher S.]

10 hours ago, Archmonoth said:

 

Why wouldn't gravity be considered a part of space weather?

I am curious where your semantic threshold is. 

From https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/weather/ :

"The term “weather” refers to the temporary conditions of the atmosphere, the layer of air that surrounds the Earth. We usually think of weather in terms of the state of the atmosphere in our own part of the world."

To be truly analogous to the conventional meaning of "Weather", one would not include Gravity as an aspect of weather. Gravity is not temporary, and more importantly, does not fluctuate in the manner that you have described it. The force of Gravity imposed on an object can fluctuate, but it is relatively consistent with regards to the source of the Gravity.

If you wish to be pedantic, apparently for the sake of having an argument, you could simply look up the definition of Weather. Your invitation into this rabbit trail looks terribly uninviting.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Christopher S.
Grammar

[Archmonoth]

On 3/29/2021 at 8:25 PM, Christopher S. said:

From https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/weather/ :

"The term “weather” refers to the temporary conditions of the atmosphere, the layer of air that surrounds the Earth. We usually think of weather in terms of the state of the atmosphere in our own part of the world."

To be truly analogous to the conventional meaning of "Weather", one would not include Gravity as an aspect of weather. Gravity is not temporary, and more importantly, does not fluctuate in the manner that you have described it. The force of Gravity imposed on an object can fluctuate, but it is relatively consistent with regards to the source of the Gravity.

If you wish to be pedantic, apparently for the sake of having an argument, you could simply look up the definition of Weather. Your invitation into this rabbit trail looks terribly uninviting.

 

 

Of course Earth weather includes an atmosphere as part of its definition. Space weather has solar wind, comets, trash, ice clouds, asteroids, and lots of terrestrial objects flying around within its system. 

 

Wouldn't space weather include things like the gravitational affects of a comets/asteroids/moons, especially for navigating? How permanent are those things? How many comets fall into the Sun every year, due to gravity, 3000 or so?

 

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Archmonoth

[Vancanneyt Sander]

The weather on Earth doesn’t talk about cars crashing etcetera so in space weather we don’t talk about near Earth objects that enter our atmosphere or plunge into the Sun  or is this comparison a bit off 😝

Op 31/3/2021 om 17:30, Archmonoth zei:

How many comets fall into the Sun every year, due to gravity, 3000 or so?

Not so much, with LASCO imagery they discovers about 4138 comets so far.

Op 31/3/2021 om 17:30, Archmonoth zei:

Wouldn't space weather include things like the gravitational affects of a comets/asteroids/moons, especially for navigating?

Everything that’s discovered is monitored with their ephemerids (once discovered and tracked they know their trajectory). Plus the models that are used they incorporate gravitational influences caused by planets and moons. So each object discovered has a known trajectory. So each day about a thousand objects fly past Earth with a distance less than one lunar distance (called near earth objects). But we only discovered a small fraction of what’s out there so the more we discover the better

[Archmonoth]

21 hours ago, Vancanneyt Sander said:

The weather on Earth doesn’t talk about cars crashing etcetera so in space weather we don’t talk about near Earth objects that enter our atmosphere or plunge into the Sun  or is this comparison a bit off 😝

 

Yeah it might be off. If cars were affected by the position of Saturn in the same way as an asteroid, when it changes course from zipping around a moon. Unlike building and streets, gravity changes locally due to moving bodies. Perhaps an earthquake is a better analogy?

 

Quote

Not so much, with LASCO imagery they discovers about 4138 comets so far.

Everything that’s discovered is monitored with their ephemerids (once discovered and tracked they know their trajectory). Plus the models that are used they incorporate gravitational influences caused by planets and moons. So each object discovered has a known trajectory. So each day about a thousand objects fly past Earth with a distance less than one lunar distance (called near earth objects). But we only discovered a small fraction of what’s out there so the more we discover the better

 

I totally agree. I think of it the same as weather prediction on earth; its an analysis of an environment for the purpose of navigation/exploration. As a site with the name of SPACEWEATHERLIVE, I am pleased to learn about all the types of weather in space. (Even if gravity is not described as weather yet.)

Edited April 5, 2021 by Archmonoth