https://mailchi.mp/c4dea3ee6ce5/fireworks-from-space?e=48100b9bf1

Dr Tamitha Skov posted this particularly interesting update Transient Luminous Events. Very Cool.

5 hours ago, hamateur 1953 said:

Dr Tamitha Skov posted this particularly interesting update Transient Luminous Events. Very Cool.

In her email you posted she says:

Dr Tamitha Skov: I cannot wait until it is commonly accepted that extreme TLEs like this one are energized by the effect of solar storms.

Citation Needed.

While I'm certainly not in a position to critique her work I have never seen a paper that ties TLEs to solar storms. If someone knows of a reference please comment.

I haven’t either tbh. Although there have been speculations regarding particle interactions triggering terrestrial lightning, I am also unaware of any correlations other than incidental. From the gist of her presentation, I assumed that this was a pretty unique event. Probably some scientific investigations will be forthcoming hopefully.

36 minutes ago, astroHoward said:

In her email you posted she says:

Citation Needed.

While I'm certainly not in a position to critique her work I have never seen a paper that ties TLEs to solar storms. If someone knows of a reference please comment.

Edited July 6Jul 6 by hamateur 1953
Afterthoughts

https://phys.org/news/2025-03-high-energy-space-particles-play.html

I found this publication after some searching @astroHoward It is relatively recent. The lower energies we typically witness aren’t discussed but the cosmic correlations are. You may have already read of these.

Edited July 7Jul 7 by hamateur 1953

21 hours ago, astroHoward said:

In her email you posted she says:

Citation Needed.

While I'm certainly not in a position to critique her work I have never seen a paper that ties TLEs to solar storms. If someone knows of a reference please comment.

Something's driving them and it ain't the storm system alone, there's not enough voltage for a lightning strike to form an ionised channel from cloud to ground. It takes 3MV/m for air(-36% for heavy rain IIRC) to become conductive and the average CtG strike has 300MV, so unless the cloud ceiling is as low as 100m there's something else contributing.

High energy particles impacting Earth forming an ionised channel for the lighting discharge to follow to ground has been theorised for at least a decade but I think it's the first time it has been experimentally strongly hinted at, per @hamateur 1953 's link.

Given that they seem to drive regular lightning it's not far fetched to assume they play a role in all forms of upwards lighting as well.

I was apprehensive until I read the source. Los Alamos certainly has a good history with particle physics. Honestly I only knew that many lightning bolts radiate into the gamma region. As far as a voltage requirement? It’s a very complex study involving dart leaders etc. So I defer to the physicists among us on that end. Edit: In any event science demands repeatability, correlation doesn’t necessarily equal causation. I really enjoyed the videos chronicling Pecos Hank and others ultimately making direct observations from widely differing locations and seeing Los Alamos interested here is pretty cool. Edit again. For anyone wondering the diameter of a lightning bolt? Well it blew a 7/8 “ diameter hole as clean as a Greenlee punch in a rooftop unit once! 🤣🤣

Edited July 8Jul 8 by hamateur 1953
Afterthoughts. Be alert before condemning an electrician for punching access holes in covers. 😊

I hope I am not reposting. This is from spaceweather.com from today. Just breathtaking.

https://spaceweathergallery2.com/full_image.php?image_name=Frankie-Lucena-GJ_ISS_July_2025_labels_crop_enh_1751658638.jpg

17 hours ago, JessicaF said:

I hope I am not reposting. This is from spaceweather.com from today. Just breathtaking.

https://spaceweathergallery2.com/full_image.php?image_name=Frankie-Lucena-GJ_ISS_July_2025_labels_crop_enh_1751658638.jpg

Wow!! As a photographer yourself, how much enhancement might have been used? It’s definitely the most awesome I have seen thus far

51 minutes ago, hamateur 1953 said:

Wow!! As a photographer yourself, how much enhancement might have been used? It’s definitely the most awesome I have seen thus far

I'm a bit disappointed they cropped the original image to put on Space Weather tbh. In fact it was not submitted by the original source, Nicole Ayers. I think having part of the space station in the frame is neat. The original image with direct link, open in new tab to get full resolution:

I'm not JessicaF, but as another photographer it does not seem to have much processing if any at all.

Nicole said this:

This shot was taken with a Nikon Z9 using a 50mm lens (f/1.2, ¼ sec, ISO 6400) as part of a time-lapse I set up in the Cupola. Like @astro_pettit said, it takes planning, timing, and a lot of pictures to capture such a rare phenomenon.

That's a pretty nice camera, full frame, 47MP, $5,000.

edit: another reason I like the full image is the arc of airglow it captured at the top of Earths atmosphere.

Edited July 8Jul 8 by astroHoward
Added airglow comment

5 hours ago, hamateur 1953 said:

Wow!! As a photographer yourself, how much enhancement might have been used? It’s definitely the most awesome I have seen thus far

It is hard to tell but my guess is that this image went through just default or rather minimal post-processing. The emotional charge of this image comes solely from the awesome moment captured. The red of the giant jet and the complementary green of the airglow as @astroHoward pointed out, the surroundings, the city glows, and the darkness of the universe.

I myself would be interested in how this was captured as in the camera was probably mounted in a fixed position exposing images continuously (?) I also wonder if there is a corresponding photograph taken from the ground.

8 minutes ago, JessicaF said:

It is hard to tell but my guess is that this image went through just default or rather minimal post-processing. The emotional charge of this image comes solely from the awesome moment captured. The red of the giant jet and the complementary green of the airglow as @astroHoward pointed out, the surroundings, the city glows, and the darkness of the universe.

I myself would be interested in how this was captured as in the camera was probably mounted in a fixed position exposing images continuously (?) I also wonder if there is a corresponding photograph taken from the ground.

And also this was very likely an event lasting under one second! Very very cool!!

29 minutes ago, JessicaF said:

I myself would be interested in how this was captured as in the camera was probably mounted in a fixed position exposing images continuously (?) I also wonder if there is a corresponding photograph taken from the ground.

Yes that is correct: they have a camera setup specifically running a time lapse sequence. It is located in the cupola on the space station. I do not have all the details at hand but I know Don Pettit, astronaut, 'pioneered' this effort to develop and promote this kind of photography. Nicole, the astronaut that captured this huge TLE, specifically credits Don as being her teacher and mentor for this kind of work.

Here is a video where Don is in a Q&A on photography while he is up there in the ISS. Its a bit slow to get going but he discusses the custom tracker he brought up to counter the space stations motion to get sharper stars. I mean the guy brought his own stuff up there to make some of this possible:

Here is spectacular 25 minute video (pro production) that covers a lot of his work, time lapses, camera and lens hardware, super interesting:

Since @astroHoward made a valid point after I recently posted the TLE updates, I felt somewhat honor- bound to at the very least stress another point that can easily be overlooked. Solar storms can certainly happen without a concurrent particle event taking place. We have had both happen during this cycle from my memory. The more energetic particles causing Ground Level Enhancements are comparatively rare and perhaps it is these particles or those close enough in energy to trigger TLEs that are really responsible.

I guess the more I think about it the more it bothers me. How could you possibly differentiate on origin given the fact that we are under more or less constant bombardment from particles beyond our solar system? Something equivalent to our terrestrial neutron monitors would seem to be needed. 😊

49 minutes ago, hamateur 1953 said:

I guess the more I think about it the more it bothers me. How could you possibly differentiate on origin given the fact that we are under more or less constant bombardment from particles beyond our solar system? Something equivalent to our terrestrial neutron monitors would seem to be needed. 😊

I think Dr Skovs comment that I questioned, which you responded to with an indirect link to "3D Radio Frequency Mapping and Polarization Observations Show Lightning Flashes Were Ignited by Cosmic-Ray Showers" is very interesting. While I've read that paper I can not say I fully grasp all its points. My only thought was the sample size seemed small to generalize this. I did find other references to similar research, dating back to at least 2012.

I'm inclined to think we should ask Dr Skov for supporting citations to her comment! Because I'm not sure the above paper has anything to do with TLEs at all.

More interesting to me is the fact the initiation of a lightning flash, which is what that paper addresses, is still relatively unknown science. I guess I never thought about this since HS science classes. Does this paper imply that every single lightning strike is initiated by high energy particles? (note that does not mean builds a ground path channel)

Now @Rudolph brought up some points but I'm not certain they are entirely relevant to initiation. That is, yes I understand the the basic point with the voltage required to overcome insulating medium (air) but honestly that is trivial to do. Anyone's that built a Van de graaff generator can see its pretty easy to generate enough charge that jumps a good distance. It doesn't take a high energy particle to initiate the air ionization that starts the charge flowing unless all the theories of its operation I have read are wrong. Thunderstorms are large structures that can generate enormous charge potential. Regarding the total distance to ground I think its irrelevant to the initiation of a discharge and otherwise what has that to do with intra-cloud lightning?

But I'm not here to argue this, I'm as curious as anyone if there is a connection between weather and space weather and if so what research has been done. What peer reviewed papers have been written on this topic?

Well @astroHoward unfortunately I have never communicated with her directly on Ham radio or digitally. But since you asked…. Ok. Well you might enjoy this. Recaptcha doesn’t believe I am a human. 🤣🤣. I’m tempted to tell it to meet me on 75 meter ssb for a QSO at eight pm this evening!! Edit again. I rarely repeat unsuccessful attempts with AI so for the present time, I am content to leave the matter alone unless another member reading this wishes to contact her directly for clarification on the matter. Later, Mike.

Edited July 9Jul 9 by hamateur 1953
Failed humanity test.

4 hours ago, hamateur 1953 said:

Ok. Well you might enjoy this. Recaptcha doesn’t believe I am a human. 🤣🤣.

I don't believe your human either, any AI could QSO (just wait its coming!) 😄

In all seriousness though, I think I understand now where Dr Skov's assertion comes from and it relates to the runaway breakdown theory. Here is one paper I read, Runaway breakdown and electrical discharges in thunderstorms, that covers this. It is worth noting the 'Recommended' sidebar of that link has some rebuttals to the paper.

The paper is heavy reading in some areas and beyond my skill there but the Conclusions and Some Outstanding Issues sections are worth reading at the least.

Yes, I too have been somewhat obsessed with this question for the past few days.

45 minutes ago, astroHoward said:

I don't believe your human either, any AI could QSO (just wait its coming!) 😄

In all seriousness though, I think I understand now where Dr Skov's assertion comes from and it relates to the runaway breakdown theory. Here is one paper I read, Runaway breakdown and electrical discharges in thunderstorms, that covers this. It is worth noting the 'Recommended' sidebar of that link has some rebuttals to the paper.

The paper is heavy reading in some areas and beyond my skill there but the Conclusions and Some Outstanding Issues sections are worth reading at the least.

Yes, I too have been somewhat obsessed with this question for the past few days.

I quickly scanned the article. It explains the production of gamma and X rays satisfactorily to me anyway: ( braking radiation from deceleration )Possibly the original purpose was the same as present: To prevent the false positive warning(s) of nuclear detonations. Or am I missing another issue entirely? Edit: gonna reread it again and suspect I see now what section regarding ev breakdowns you were thinking about. No need to reply. It’s a fascinating subject! Reread deeper into it and I could see how one might allow for the possible influences of lower-energy electrons upon thunderstorm cells. If she were aware of this research ( likely) it could make sense. However the TLE phenomenon is still open to further verification, I am pretty sure you would agree.

Edited July 10Jul 10 by hamateur 1953
Good geek readings. Bremsstrahlung radiation

Pecos Hank regularly captures sprites above thunderstorms from 50-100km in altitude. In one of his outings he even captured some aurora-like phenomena that very briefly accompanied some of the sprites. Turns out after he mentioned it to other sprite photographers they went back and reviewed their prior footage and found the same thing. No one's sure what's causing it though.

44 minutes ago, cgrant26 said:

Pecos Hank regularly captures sprites above thunderstorms from 50-100km in altitude. In one of his outings he even captured some aurora-like phenomena that very briefly accompanied some of the sprites. Turns out after he mentioned it to other sprite photographers they went back and reviewed their prior footage and found the same thing. No one's sure what's causing it though.

I really enjoy his productions. He is a smart guy with a great sense of humor too.