Circadian-Clock (human) vs Solar-Rhythms ?

[Ron NL]

It is a known fact that we Humans have "Circadian-Clocks" 

These clocks run in a 24 hr rhythm (cycle-length is approx 24 hrs)  

there are more cycles in Humans (and animals,flowers ...etc)

such as weekly, monthly and even yearly rhythms.

 

If we assume that we humans take those rhythms from the Sun

by using one or more various sensors in our body (ie: Eyes) 

Questions: 

1)

Which 24 hour or other rhythm(s) can be found in the Sun ?

 

2)

Science assumes these to be related to "light" 

but was not yet able to exactly point to which (light) phenoma in the Sun we synchronise to

I wonder which it is: 

 

* Light  (human-visble) ?

* UV (non human-visble) ?

* Magnetic ? 

 

It is known that in our eyes we have both sensors for light (radiation) and for magnetics (field)  

many functions or systems in our body are regulated from that. 

In case these are taken (synchronised) from the Sun

which phenomena in the Sun could be responsable for that ?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Ron NL

[Christopher S.]

Here, plenty of research on the subject, and plenty of reading when you have free time: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1330995/

I wouldn't say this is quite the appropriate section of the website to post this question on. "Other" is recommended for questions of which solar activity is not the primary basis. This topic deals with the effects of various wavelengths on the EMS on human beings and other life, it is not solar-centric.

5 hours ago, Ron NL said:

Which 24 hour or other rhythm(s) can be found in the Sun ?

Well, the Sun takes ≈25 days to rotate on its axis. There's the ≈40 year cycle of plasma flow across its surface. There's the ≈11 year periods where the Sun alternates between maximum and minimum. There's no 24h phenomenon associated with the Sun.

(following quote shortened and simplified for readability)

5 hours ago, Ron NL said:

Science assumes these to be related to "light" but [is] not yet able to exactly point to which (light) phenomena in the Sun we synchronize to. I wonder which it is: 

• Light  (human-visible) ?
• UV (non human-visible) ?
• Magnetic ? 

It is known that in our eyes we have both sensors for light (radiation) and for magnetics (field) [and] many functions or systems in our body are regulated from that. In case these are taken (synchronized) from the Sun which phenomena in the Sun could be responsible for that ?

The magnetic field of Earth shields us from any direct influence from outside of it. Even if it did not, the magnetic field strength of the Sun is not substantial enough to have a noticeable effect on daily life. Moreover, we cannot see magnetic fields. If you've ever had the high school science experiment where you were given a magnet and ferric dust(iron), you may remember the pattern the dust conformed to. That is indeed the magnetic field of the magnet(di-polar) but remember that you could not have seen it without the dust - and even then, you're not seeing the field itself, you're seeing its effect on magnetized substances.

The studies suggest that light and temperature are the driving force for the circadian rhythm of humans and animals. In the absence of variance of light and temperatures, we adopt our own particular, unique patterns as a substitute.

In special cases, you see nocturnal animals which have adapted to survive better during the nighttime, and sleep during the daytime. These creatures have bodily, neurological processes which respond to light and cooler temperatures just as many other creatures do, just at completely opposite times of a 24h day. This shows us that light during awake periods is not necessary for creatures to thrive, and actively opposes some evolutionary traits which nature has historically rewarded. Even most fungi prefer complete darkness. 

The root of this sleep-wake cycle comes from balance, routine, and survival instinct - the complexity of each vary widely across nearly all organisms, and do not necessarily apply to microorganisms the same way. Being able to not only see, but remain unseen - being warmed up in a particular climate allowing work to be done, or by encouraging sleepiness in nocturnal beings. Activating chemical processes that trigger self-corrective behavior or engage in a time-tested routine. These are all functions primarily of visible light on life. The rest is extraneous.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Christopher S.
Cut it short earlier due to strong thunderstorm overhead.

[Ron NL]

 @Christopher S.   Thanks for your reply.

My point is ofcourse ..to discover how a human would be able to retrieve information         

from any of the radiations or fields the sun might produce ..for the purpose of synchronising to it. 

 

1)

For the Circadian-rhythm (which means near-daily) that seems to be not to difficult 

I can imagine 10 ways how even 2 simple light sensors could calculate the time-of-day or positition of the sun

Phase-detection , Doppler-effect, Amplitude-comparing ...etc  ..these are calculations many life-forms can do. 

The 24 hour circadian-rhythm in humans and other life is indeed not exactly 24 hours but instead the time it takes between

2 solar-days (solar-time) as perceived by us ... our clocks are basicly "freerunning" and they get (re)synchronised by the sun. 

Food, Temperature  and similair are secundairy signals 

Look up Circadian-Clock for that ....it's a long story ... but we dont disagree much on this.

 

2) 

I can also imagine how a weekly to even yearly solar-rhythms could be found

One of the ideas by science is by simple counting of the daily rhythm (clock-pulses)  

 

3) 

It gets more complicated to proof or even theorize how this would work with the much longer 11 year solar-cycle 

or the 22 yr or maybe even the 5,5 yr pieces of it. 

I suppose you know by now that i'm looking for an explanation for the fact pandemics allways occur on

both Max or Min in the solar-curve ..since in my theory pandemics are caused by the loss of sync during 

the flat part of the solar-cycle (nothing can synchronise to a flat line) which can only occur at peaks ..that are not so "peaky" after all                                                 

... they can be streched for many months.

 

Therefore i'm wondering if our eyes (and the brain) could distill such a (11yr) period from only looking at

the intensities in solar-radiation or at least the human visible light .... which seems to difficult/complicated to me.

So now im looking at other phenomena that could represent those longer cycles. 

 

Ofcourse the 1st that comes to mind are the magnetic fields from either the Earth or the Sun 

The Sun's magnetic field flips polarisation in synch with solar-activity.

So the flipping of that polarisation would be a good candidate ... if it could be sensed by us. 

 

4) 

Now ..let me surprise you ...we Humans do indeed have at least 3 magnetoreceptors !

which can sense orientation of magnetic fields   ... 1 in each eye ...(total 2) ...and another one in or around the brain

in so called glands  ... if you google for magnetoreceptor  you will find that many life-forms do have those.

If you google specificly for human magnetoreceptor,  you will find both articles ... that suspect it to exist 

and other articles ... that explain it to the full to exist.

 

If we indeed can do that ... then it seems to me that a polarisation-flip of the sun would be easy to sense with 

at least 3 magnetoreceptors inside us  ... a polarisation-flip would create a strong spike ... which might standout from 

a noisy or relative steady background during normal (non-flipping) periods ...and voila there you have your 11 or 22 yr clock-pulse

to which we can synchronise. 

 

You could also think the other way around:  "why do we have magnetoreceptors in our body" ? 

the only answer to that must be ... because we need to sense magnetic-fields.

 

 

Short-term (human) synchronisation using visible light clues ?

Longterm (human) synchronisation using magnetic clues ?

 

What do you think ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Ron NL

[Christopher S.]

17 hours ago, Ron NL said:

My point is ofcourse ..to discover how a human would be able to retrieve information from any of the radiations or fields the sun might produce ..for the purpose of synchronising to it. 

The agency of an organism to survive overrides any small signaling that can occur from the various solar events that happen across the Sun's various periods of activity, i.e. CME arrival at Earth. That is to say, we sleep at night because we can't see what we're doing without light, because it's sometimes too cold, and because most everyone else is asleep and it would be discourteous to make a lot of noise that disturbs others. These are the most simple and obvious biological and sociological responses to the rhythm of day/night, and that is purely driven by the rotation of the Earth which results in day/night to begin with.

17 hours ago, Ron NL said:

For the Circadian-rhythm (which means near-daily) that seems to be not too difficult. I can imagine 10 ways how even 2 simple light sensors could calculate the time-of-day or positition of the sun: Phase-detection , Doppler-effect, Amplitude-comparing ...etc  ..these are calculations many life-forms can do. The 24 hour circadian-rhythm in humans and other life is indeed not exactly 24 hours but instead the time it takes between 2 solar-days (solar-time) as perceived by us ... our clocks are basicly "freerunning" and they get (re)synchronised by the sun. Food, Temperature  and similair are secundairy signals - Look up Circadian-Clock for that ....it's a long story ... but we dont disagree much on this.

We only need one type of sense to detect the time of day and position of the Sun(relative to us), and that is sight. With that we know if it's time for bed or time to wake up. As I said previously, there are many reasons to wake up during the day and go to bed after sunset. With timekeeping mechanisms(historically sundials and in modern conventions a clock or watch) as well as knowledge of the variance of day/night length based on latitude of an observer, we can reckon with utmost certainty the position of the Sun while we cannot directly observe it based on empirical data. This is a level of intelligence that somewhat transcends the biological process of pattern recognition, which other sentient organisms rely on. Historically, human beings based religion and their understanding of the changing seasons on the notion that the Sun itself was actually moving away every night, but with more modern knowledge we know that to not be true. The yearly variance of day/night lengths is due to factors such as Earth's axis of rotation, which is not 0º but rather 23.5º; the very slight inclination of the Earth's orbit; and the long-term axial procession which changes the length of seasons and consequently the day/night length during a given time of year.

Temperature is a secondary factor, and is less important, mainly because we can see. It is more important for organisms that do not rely on sight(or people who are blind) as it provides a definite sense that the Sun is overhead. In a more technical sense along the lines you're speaking on, we feel heat from UV ray absorption directly on our skin, and from the radiance of heat as it absorbed by the surface of our surroundings and dissipated throughout the air.

17 hours ago, Ron NL said:

I can also imagine how a weekly to even yearly solar-rhythms could be found. One of the ideas by science is by simple counting of the daily rhythm (clock-pulses)  

As I stated in the beginning of this post, we have natural agency to override signals that may occur outside of the main two factors/senses which provide us with the awareness of day and night. With satellites in space detecting light on every major frequency as it arrives from the Sun, we can more accurately detect any rhythms that may be present, and so far we have not detected any beyond the three fundamental solar cycles as stated in my previous comment(solar day cycle, plasma cycle, and min/max cycles). The magnetic field orientation of the Sun mainly changes the way sunspots are formed and is part of the min/max cycles. In those periods of time, there are no climatic, environmental, or magnetic changes detectable on Earth's surface, so therefore these are not influential on the circadian rhythm nor the seasonal changes of organisms.

17 hours ago, Ron NL said:

It gets more complicated to prove or even theorize how this would work with the much longer 11 year solar-cycle or the 22 yr or maybe even the 5,5 yr pieces of it. I suppose you know by now that i'm looking for an explanation for the fact pandemics allways occur on both Max or Min in the solar-curve ..since in my theory pandemics are caused by the loss of sync during the flat part of the solar-cycle (nothing can synchronise to a flat line) which can only occur at peaks ..that are not so "peaky" after all... they can be streched for many months. 

It is particularly important at this stage of the conversation that I point out the difference between a hypothesis, and a theory. Thankfully wikipedia is sufficient to that end, so please give those two articles a read - it saves me the trouble of sounding pedantic and dismissive of your questions. I welcome your curiosity with open arms, hence why I take the time to write my responses tentatively, but it is important to distinguish those two terms as they are very different.

While the topic of pandemics during a solar minimum have been discussed just recently on this very website, only a small number of historic pandemics can be aligned with the coincidence of a solar minimum. The same agency of human beings is responsible for failure to contain a viral outbreak as is responsible for behavior in response to daytime or nighttime. If we don't isolate ourselves, a.k.a. quarantine, we increase the likelihood for a pandemic exponentially, and the longer we simply ignore it, the more likely it becomes. You can find data on the current "curve" of COVID-19 as well as various other data points here and also here. These are links to the CDC website, so the data pertains to the US for the most part. This link will show the global incidence of total confirmed cases as well as new cases: https://covid19.who.int/table that more appropriately illustrates the "curve." Take it with a grain of salt, as reporting is subject to data manipulation or mitigation. Aside from all of that, this has nothing to do with the circadian rhythm.

Quote

Therefore i'm wondering if our eyes (and the brain) could distill such a (11yr) period from only looking at the intensities in solar-radiation or at least the human visible light .... which seems to difficult/complicated to me. So now im looking at other phenomena that could represent those longer cycles. Of course the 1st that comes to mind are the magnetic fields from either the Earth or the Sun - The Sun's magnetic field flips polarisation in synch with solar-activity. So the flipping of that polarisation would be a good candidate ... if it could be sensed by us.

As stated in my previous comment, Earth's magnetic field shields us(i.e. surface-borne life) from direct influence from the Sun's own magnetic field(including the solar wind currents). While there may be short periods(as in, moments, from a geomagnetic storm for example) where the two fields "connect" this is nearly undetectable below the extremely high latitudes(the geographical poles) and otherwise overridden by Earth's magnetic field. During the strongest geomagnetic storms, ground currents(electrical) can be induced and cause damage to electronics. This may be detectable by organisms that use electric or magnetic signals to communicate or navigate, but otherwise doesn't induce direct harm or long-term changes to life. You can read about the solar magnetic field a bit here: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/understanding-the-magnetic-sun and for contrast, a celestial body that is not shielded from influence, you can read about Venus' induced magnetic field here. There is no known life on Venus, however it may be home to some extremophiles. This is not something we know enough about to gauge the effects of the solar cycles on life in such an environment.

18 hours ago, Ron NL said:

Now ..let me surprise you ...we Humans do indeed have at least 3 magnetoreceptors ! which can sense orientation of magnetic fields   ... 1 in each eye ...(total 2) ...and another one in or around the brain in so called glands  ... if you google for magnetoreceptor  you will find that many life-forms do have those. If you google specificly for human magnetoreceptor,  you will find both articles ... that suspect it to exist and other articles ... that explain it to the full to exist.

If we indeed can do that ... then it seems to me that a polarisation-flip of the sun would be easy to sense with at least 3 magnetoreceptors inside us  ... a polarisation-flip would create a strong spike ... which might standout from a noisy or relative steady background during normal (non-flipping) periods ...and voila there you have your 11 or 22 yr clock-pulse to which we can synchronise. 

As I just explained, this sensory input is overridden by Earth's magnetic field, and more to the point made in another part of this comment, is not a primary or even secondary driver of human behavior throughout a day, the seasons, or a year. A proof of concept for how insignificant our senses of magnetism really are is to take a strong rare-earth magnet and simply look at it. Can you see the magnetic field? No. Can you determine its polarity? No. Can you detect its presence or proximity without sight? Not unless it makes a noise i.e. something slams into it, or it slams into something. This also applies to Earth's magnetic field. You can't directly sense it nor determine its polarity. Some creatures can, such as avian or marine life, as this is crucial for their sense of navigation, although the mechanism for such biological functions is not particularly well understood. In summary, however, there is nothing about the magnetic variance of the Sun or of Earth that drives a rhythm in human life.

That is not to say it is 100% imperceptible, just that the degree of perception is not direct, obvious, or paramount to survival, and thus is overridden by the other survival mechanisms of human life. This is why we rely on technological means to detect and monitor the geomagnetic field, the IMF, etc. as these are important to understanding space weather and its interactions with the planet.

Hopefully this sheds some light on things for you. Feel free to ask more questions.

[Ron NL]

 

Let's do this one by one ... lets start with the last one.

 

----1-----

 

Let me try explain the concept of sensors in our body and how their signals are processed.

You obviously think:  "What i dont feel or see ... does not exist"   or  "Everything that exist ... i can feel or see"  

 

But most of our sensory-signals are not processed in a consious way ! , (motoric-system) 

Those signals are processed automatically ...and the result is executed automatically

 

Example of a sensor in our body ...that senses things you CANT HEAR ... you CANT SEE and you CANT  FEEL

It works all by itself ... its signals are processed automatically .. allways ... in your brain .. you dont need to do or think anything to make it work

This organ helps you to not fall .... to keep your BALANCE  ... its called  "VESTIBULAR SYSTEM" 

it is located in your EAR  ... it has nothing to do with hearing  (its a different sensor ...which happens to also sit in your ear)  

You dont feel it working  ..you dont perceive ... or notice anything of it's signals directly 

but if its dangerous for you,  it will signal your arms or legs to do some action .

 

Theres many sensors ... our brain collects them ...decides what to do ... most of it happens without us noticing this process itself.

 Vestibular System :  Video

 

 

Vestibular System : Article

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK279394/#:~:text=It is also essential to,organs are filled with fluid. 

Vestibular System :  Wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestibular_system 

 

 

 

2 --------------- 

 

 MAGNETORECEPTORS exist in many animals (PROOFED) ...and that there are STRONG INDICATIONS  that we Humans also posess them.  

therefore you resolute statement that we can not sense magnetic-fields is not correct .. because you dont know that

...because most/many researchers think/suspect we can

its just that they dont know how exactly this works.  

 

Your EYES  looking at a magnet ... and not feeling anything is bad example !

we only process usefull sensations 

A still-standing not moving magnet does not mean anything ..it does not generate any information ... you cant synchronise anything from a non-moving object 

To distill clock-signals you need: pulses , changes , variations  ... and they need to resemble to what is expected in any process 

Its like a (digital) band-filter ... if the signal (sequence) does not fall in the range of the filter then it doesn't pass. 

 

Example:

Imagine that our eyes would see all the wavelengths ... then it would be one big MESS !

one piece of big light everywhere ... no details ... or to much details

so nature has created it such that we only see the for us usefull wavelengths. 

 

 

Anyway  if  "Magnetoreceptors" exist ... their signals will not show up as "Beeps in your Ears" ....or as.... "Flashes of red light in your left Eye"   

Because that is not their purpose !  ...  it will go where you dont perceive it (biological clock)

You will probably have no knowledge of these signals ... because they will only go to where it is needed !

in case of my "theory"  they would go to some bio-clock in our body that needs longtime synchronisation from a magnetic-source (pulse or flip)  

The Solar Polarisation-flip seems a very good candidate 

Obviously such signal must have a specific WAVEFORM or DURATION or TIMING  .... otherwise it wont be recognized as a valid signal. 

 

Magnetoreceptors obviously dont look at  "LEVELS" ... but at  "PULSES"  !  (changing fields or their patterns) 

Pulses are easy to detect .. much easier as relative levels .. they also standout above the noise 

If you as a life-form wanted to magnetically synchronise to the 11 yr solar-cycle 

then you would look for the most distinctive and best representing feature .. probably also the strongest

... and that must be the solar polarisation-flip.

 

"Earth's own magnetic-field will screen us from solar-magnetic-fields" ?  

A Polarisation-flip is a strong pulse ... i dont know if Earths own magnetic fields are pulsing 

If they are just at a steady level but not pulsing ... then a weaker pulse from the sun might still be 

distinguishable .. it will have some specific features ... other then the Earth's own field 

... its all a question of good filtering ... dont under-estimate our biology &  brain                                                    

it can do:  Phase-detection , Doppler-effect , Amplitude-comparing ,  Pattern-recognition. 

Distilling a strong pulse from a steady background (earth's field) .. is not difficult. 

 

Google search for magenetoreceptor    https://bit.ly/3aGb67p 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Ron NL

[Christopher S.]

I didn't say that we don't have magnetoreceptors, I said that any magnetic signals from the Sun at the surface are overridden by Earth's geomagnetic field. Something barely perceptible isn't going to override something that has an overwhelming influence on all life i.e. visible light and the heating it causes. 

Why don't you put your google search efforts to figuring out how that works? The Earth's geomagnetic field, that is.

In fact, just going over your comments thus far, this seems more of a campaign to argue the significance of magnetism on human life without showing any evidence for it, resting entirely on evidence claiming a possibility that we can detect it as well as unsubstantiated evidence claiming to prove it definitively. There is nothing in what you're arguing that makes a case for magnetism driving human sleep/wake cycles, and in fact you contradict that by saying that we don't know how exactly it works. Well, we certainly know how visible light works, and haven't needed science or research to tell us that. It's just simple and obvious.

Simple and obvious things, especially when significant enough to dictate survival methods in nearly all living organisms, tend to override things that are complex and nearly imperceptible. That's just how it is. I for one won't claim that I can see, feel, or "sense" magnetic anything. How could I? I'm a human being. Do you know how to perceive a magnet? Feel free to tell me.

This is a moot point, anyways; The study I linked showing a complete disruption in a natural circadian rhythm on people in a sunless environment without timekeeping devices did not do anything to shield these people from geomagnetic influence. I don't believe such a thing is possible without going into space, but that doesn't matter. Their sleep/wake cycle became irregular despite geomagnetic influence remaining identical.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Christopher S.

[Ron NL]

@Christopher S.      

 

I was not finshed yet   ..please read my last post again. 

 

In response to:  "Magnetic signals from the Sun at the surface are overridden by Earth's geomagnetic field" 

Question:

A)   Is the Earth's magnetic field pulsing ?  ,

B)  Does the Earth's magnetic field do Polarisation-Flips ? 

B)  Or is it a relatively steady and slowly moving field ?   

 

 

Earth is = DC  (slow moving field)

and

Sun-Polarisation-Flip = AC (strong pulses) 

 

In many cases you could still be able to distinguish the AC from the DC   (My own knowledge from 60 yr of Electronics/Radiocomms Eng)  

Inj addition we have 2 eyes ... so there are 2 sensors ... this is even an extra feature that will help separate Sun's from Earth's magnetic signals. 

With 2 "antennas" we can do:  Depth , Focussing , Phase, Beamforming ... some of it more advanced then the Militairy electronic warfare stuff ! 

 

 

Ok ... idea ! ..... lets try  " the proof is in the pudding " 

Did we receive (magnetic) Solar-Polarisation-Flip signals on the Earth (surface) ?    (Dec 2019-Feb 2020) 

I have seen them on the satellite-videos ... but Is SOMEONE ON  EARTH SURFACE recording those " ? 

... if yes then they are obviously reaching us. 

? ? ? ? 

 

Quote

"Complete disruption in a natural circadian rhythm on people in a sunless environment "

Not correct ! ... no Sun ...and we go in "freewheel-mode"  .. our body has  its own internal clocks ! 

We have so called "Clock-genes" ... they behave like "oscillators"  the "oscillator-frequency" is used to created the clock-pulse 

The Sun is only used to synchonise them (every once in a while) ... 

 

 

 

 

I dont know where you read that .. i read other publications ... for example....were they put a German researcher in a bunker for 40 days 

and his Circadian Rhythm continued just fine ... all that happened.. was that his circadian rhythm shifted in time  (2 ... 3 ? hours)  

 

 " Complete disruption in a natural circadian rhythm on people in a sunless environment "

is not correct ...from what i read in 100's of publications and articles ... i have researched it ...long before we started this thread 

there is no complete disruption !    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Ron NL

[Christopher S.]

I think you're turning this into a(rather baseless and ridiculous) argument of concept rather than accepting or looking into the details of my response to your post.

If you define a circadian rhythm as something completely different from its universally accepted definition, and stretch that subjective idea of what it is to conform to the premise behind what you're arguing, there's just no dialogue to be had here. You're in your own head and going way off the rails of the topic you've brought up here.

3 hours ago, Ron NL said:

I have seen them on the satellite-videos ... but Is SOMEONE ON  EARTH SURFACE recording those " ? 

... if yes then they are obviously reaching us. 

This alone shows us how unhinged your premise is. The disconnect between what we were originally talking about to what you're swaying the topic towards, moreover the disconnect between the logic in this very quote(the satellite records, a human collects the data, therefore the magnetic influence reaches us; the original point you were making was about organic sensory of the magnetic fields, which since you can't argue with the logic presented against that have resorted to a blatant strawman). It's a shame that the discussion has to devolve like this as it was going perfectly fine, but your attitude and aggressive line-breaking, all-caps as if to imply shouting, and abandonment of a civil, direct conversation about the actual topic, and your history of name-calling and overall antagonistic approach to rational discussions... well, it all suggests that this conversation should end here.

I am stubborn to a fault, however. I will oblige to answer a select few of your other questions.

Quote

In response to:  "Magnetic signals from the Sun at the surface are overridden by Earth's geomagnetic field" 

Question:

A)   Is the Earth's magnetic field pulsing ?  ,

B)  Does the Earth's magnetic field do Polarisation-Flips ? 

C)  Or is it a relatively steady and slowly moving field ?   

The geomagnetic field of our planet is a constantly generated field. The geomagnetic dynamo does not pause based on historical records, although it bends and weakens in the face of strong solar wind, such as from a direct CME impact or coronal hole influence. It does not weaken to the point of complete "failure" however, and will always regenerate once the solar wind lets up. It does appear to have flipped in the past, and does so at an interval of ≈100,000 to 50,000,000 years(an astonishingly large range). Note that this range surpasses the earliest records of human existence. The movement of the field itself is difficult to resolve accurately, as well as its projected strength within the next few centuries. It could be that it has long pulses, but the cycle of these is uncertain and seems to occur in intervals exceeding the lifespan of a human being. See this article for more details on the matter: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev.ea.16.050188.002133

Edited August 21, 2020 by Christopher S.
Answered questions rather than stonewalling the conversation

[Ron NL]

I have concluded that you are not the right person to discuss this with

We are not on the same level ... your knowledge is to limited

So please find some other thread ..and leave me alone

 

 

 

 

 

[Marcel de Bont]

I think you two should agree to disagree between it gets out of hand. I wont get involved in the discussion here but I think Christopher made some very comprehensive and reasonable posts but the problem is that they do not fit your way of thinking @Ron NL, not that his knowledge is limited.